Earhart's Plane Found?!

[Peter Gunn]

The whole "Death by the Japanese" just doesn't wash. I would think Japan (the people and government) would have been thrilled and honored that AE would have chosen to land in their country (re; the 1936 communique by Shinpachi). You can't look through the lens of WWII and let it cloud your judgement of the prewar era. I have always found the Japanese to be a warm, honest and civilized people with an enviable code of honor. Even in late 1941 there were many in the Japanese government still trying to find a peaceful solution to the tensions in the Pacific.

Agreed many of those tensions were brought on by their actions in China, but when AE was on her round the world flight, I can't see anything but them bending over backwards to help if asked.

I think the question I've always had was why she changed the flight plan from west to east. In 1936 she would have crossed the Pacific first when she and Noonan were fresh and just starting out. The navigation wouldn't have been to find a tricky little sand spit in the middle of the ocean. Perhaps one of you leaned gentlemen know more as to why she chose to head east in 1937 instead of west out of California as originally planned in 1936.

 

[Peter Gunn]

Well obviously buffnut453 is looking at the timeline from some angle that is different than mine. Events that occur after 1937 can not impact the previous event that occurred in '37. In no way could the events of '38, '40, or '41 impact the events of '37. That's how time works. The events in '37 could of course impact later events.

No, I think what Buff is saying is that he is pointing out that relations between the U.S. and the Axis powers were still civilized enough even after AE disappeared to suggest that the Japanese murdering AE is ridiculous...patently.

Added to what FBJ said earlier regarding the timeline and where all your major players are and what they are doing also suggests that your theory needs some readjustment.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

The planning and training to attack the US took years starting in the middle of 1937. The IJA rampage in China that started in late '37 forced the buildup as the pro-Axis forces in the IJA knew war with the US was inevitable. Tojo in China doing his dirt to the Chinese in 1937 doesn't mean he could not control the IJA in the mandated area.

"Could of, would of, should of." Tom, your own statements blow away your own theories.

And again the fact that the closed manned Japanese garrison was 800 miles away from AE's LKP.

Tom - you're grasping at sporadic half facts. You can't have a viable conspiracy theory when places, people and historic time lines don't match.

I think Kelly Johnson designed the P-38 knowing that several years later it would be used for an aerial assassination.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Memos attached to the screening docs tell that, according to the international aviation rules, Japanese authorities should give her flight permission but, to do so, they need to be presented a certificate of air worthiness because there were not a few crash accidents by the record challengers at the time.

Just for the record, the certificate of airworthiness was issued by the US CAA and carried aboard the aircraft. During this period US civil aviation regulation was still in its infancy and there were many rouge operators who ignored CAA rules. Some states even tried to set up their own state aviation agencies.

 

[Robert Porter]

I think Kelly Johnson designed the P-38 knowing that several years later it would be used for an aerial assassination.

Wow, had no idea Kelly Johnson had a crystal ball!

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Wow, had no idea Kelly Johnson had a crystal ball!

Him along with a bunch of rogue Japanese soldiers causing mayhem in the South Pacific during the summer of 1937!

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Again for the record;

Mili Atoll was the closest Japanese military base to Howland Island and AE LKP in 1937. During that time it had maybe 150 personnel on the island who operated a weather station and ADF facility. Mili is over 850 miles to the north east of Howland.

"Between the wars. After the capitulation of the German Empire in 1918, the newly formed League of Nations gave all former German possessions north of the Equator for administration to the Japanese Empire. The Japanese established a centralised district administration in Jaluit,with the internal affairs of Mile left to be handled by a local atoll authorities. There is an unsubstantiated notion that the famous aviator, Amelia Earhart who disappeared on a trans-Pacific flight in 1937, crashed in Mile Lagoon.

The Mile airbase. In the late 1930s Japan began to fortify its Marshallese possessions contrary to the Convenant of the League of Nations. These fortifications were centered on Kwajalein, Maloelap and Wotje. Any development of Mile Atoll, however, was not part in the grand strategic scheme."

WWII sites on Mili Atoll, Marshall Islands

 

[GrauGeist]

Ok, let's consider Tom's point for a moment: Earhart was a Yankee spy and needed killing.

But then why wasn't Charles Lindbergh captured and killed when he was in Germany as late as 1939? He even met Hitler on several occasions, toured aircraft factories, met top Luftwaffe officials, etc. - this was two years after Earhart disappearance.

Japan also had a great chance to snuff Yankee spies cleverly disguised as baseball players when Babe Ruth, Jamie Foxx, Earl Averill, Lou Gehrig, Charlie Gehringer, Lefty Gomez, Connie Mack, Moe Berg and others visited Japan under the cover of a "Goodwill Tour" - why Japan let this golden opportunity get away from them, we'll never know...but perhaps they took out their frustrations on a solitary woman and her navigator to save face.

 

[buffnut453]

No, I think what Buff is saying is that he is pointing out that relations between the U.S. and the Axis powers were still civilized enough even after AE disappeared to suggest that the Japanese murdering AE is ridiculous...patently.

Added to what FBJ said earlier regarding the timeline and where all your major players are and what they are doing also suggests that your theory needs some readjustment.

Yup...What he said.

 

[buffnut453]

Posted in error. Please ignore.

Nothing to see here...move along!

 

[Shinpachi]

Records are coming up one after another from the JACAR archives.

IJN had close and friendly ties with U.S. Navy in the search of Amelia Earhart and Fred Noonan.
As of July 9, 1937, Japanese Consulate General Yoshimi Sato in New Orleans reports Tokyo with a local newspaper copy.
"American people are so grateful for our sincere cooperation with the search of Amelia Earhart and her crew like this Houston Post dated July 8 reports". Hard to read with noise. Sorry.

 

[bobbysocks]

good find!

 

[GrauGeist]

Something that some people may find interesting, is on 15 July, 1937, a psychic from Seattle Washington, Gene Dennis made the statement that her friend (Amelia) is "safe on a south sea island and will be rescued" she goes on to say "Fishing boats will find the flyers, possibly near the Gilbert Islands, near the end of the week."

 

[stona]

Another 'psychic' that got it wrong

No surprise there then!

Cheers

Steve

 

[GrauGeist]

Another 'psychic' that got it wrong

No surprise there then!

Cheers

Steve

Well...the part I found particularly interesting, was the "safe on a south sea island" bit.

If we look at the Navy and Coast Guard's reaction, they assumed Amelia went down at sea and that the Lockheed would most likely remain afloat for some period of time. The Lexington and Battleship Colorado conducted their air searches in areas north of Howland Island - no one at the time thought to search to the south...

 

[stona]

Well...the part I found particularly interesting, was the "safe on a south sea island" bit.
.

I'd say Gene was hedging her bets. There are about 20,000 south sea islands !

It's something psychics and other fraudsters do, emphasising the positives (gained by chance) and ignoring the negatives, which would statistically demonstrate their fraud.
Had Earhart been found on ANY south sea island, which might have been possible, then everyone would have remarked what a great psychic Gene was .
In a way she was unlucky !

Cheers

Steve

 

[GrauGeist]

Ever notice how a "psychic" will usually ask you for your name when you first meet?

 

[Tom Maxwell]

Ok, let's consider Tom's point for a moment: Earhart was a Yankee spy and needed killing....

Let me be clear- the Orona theory does not paint AE as a spy and the Japanese military did not execute her or mistreat her in any way. The theory speculates that AE spent five years on Roi-Namur under IJN protection and wasn't removed to Saipan until mid '42 after Midway when the influence of the IJN was in decline. The USMC veterans discovered the "quarters outfitted for a woman" and the diary labeled "10 year diary of Amelia Earhart" after the liberation of Roi-Namur.
Very few Japanese defenders survived that battle.

Nor does the Orona theory paint the Japanese people and society as evil. As in Germany, the character of the people remained unchanged. It was the political fascists regimes that controlled and directed the evil without the expressed agreement of the people. So the kidnap and captivity of AE was not something the Japanese did rather it was something fascists pirates did. I thought I was being careful to always use the term pro-Axis pirates on my web pages but it doesn't seem to sink in with most readers.

 

[GrauGeist]

Pro-Axis Pirates doesn't sink in because it's a ridiculous term.

And out of all of these conspiracy theories, no one has actualy come foreward and stated conclusively WHY Amelia would have been of such great interest to the Japanese government, other than some vague half-baked theories of her being a spy.

As for Marines finding quarters for a woman (or women) - there were Dutch and Australian army nurses captured during the war. There were Catholic Nuns interned during the war. There were foreign diplomats and their wives interned during the war.

There has been mountains of speculation, assumptions and tall tales that all lead nowhere.

Meanwhile, on Gardner (Nikumaroro) Island, there is at least tangible evidence that provides a stronger case than all the conspiracies combined.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Theories, theories, theories...

FACT - She was close to Howland Island - This kills any possibility that she was up to 800 miles off course as some AE researchers claim.

FACT - The closest Japanese garrison was over 850 miles from her LKP (Mili Island)
FACT - The Japanese had no motives during 1937 to hold AE
FACT - With 4 to six hours (the latter is wishful thinking) of fuel on board she would have had to fly north east (almost opposite from her LKP to come within 200 miles of the only Japanese military garrison in that part of the Pacific.

Marines claim to have seen her dairy, some early newspaper reports stated she was picked up by a fishing boat, several witnesses on Saipan gave sketchy and conflicting reports about a white man and woman being executed, but yet not a shred of documented evidence ever emerged.

Again - if there were credible evidence that the Japanese held AE, the US military would have had the greatest propaganda tool of the war and would have exploited it to no end!

BTW - The distance from Mili Islands to Saipan is 1871 miles - why take her there??