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ONE single piece of evidence possibly discredited. It's truly amazing how so many of you jump with total belief and vindication glee on that ONE negative finding that supports your belief but reacted with total disbelieving disdain and ridicule when the one positive finding (photograph) was first presented.
But it is not just one piece of evidence. The photo takes out the whole issue of the ship supposedly used to transport them and tow their plane. That photo was the keystone to the whole house of cards, when it went all the rest of the related evidence went with it. Of the facts in actual evidence no one is in dispute. It is how those facts were woven together to support a massive concoction that is in dispute. Not only has the photo been discredited but so has the the supposed FBI whatever, and the communist woman that tied the whole thing in a nice neat ball. As more and more true investigators are jumping on this more and more of the supposed evidence is turning into well someone I know told me that someone that knew someone else said.ONE single piece of evidence possibly discredited.
Personally the photograph was never a serious piece of evidence especially in today's digital world where photographs are so easily altered. Likewise the blurry indistinct Earhart figure was only suggestive. I was more impressed with the Noonan-figure. Though blurred as well facial features and hairline very very close matches.
So my opinion is unchanged, photograph or not. There is too much other circumstantial and documented evidence present not to give credence to the Earhart/Marshall Island/capture scenario.
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everything you've presented so far is based on assumptions, here say and speculation
Joe, you are somewhat correct. Unfortunately at this late date speculation and conjecture are all the probably remains. BUT there are some documented sources such as her fuel report that shows 1156 gallons of fuel at take off and at fuel consumption of 42 gallons per hour she had 27 flying hours. So at 20 hours 15 minutes, she had burned 850.50 gallons of fuel and had between 4.5 and 5.5 hours of fuel remaining. More than enough to reach a land mass. That of course does not preclude a ditching but does make it a more remote possibility. The permission letter and its written refusal are another smoking gun. She had asked and been denied and then in spite of that did it anyway!! What would THAT say to the Japanese were she captured? To get something labeled as conspiracy is an automatic way to get a majority to discount it, mission accomplished.ran out of fuel,
I simply think that it is more credible than having her ditching with hours of fuel remaining. Add to that the Japanese Military take over of the civilian government, Japanese expansionist doctrine, Japanese total blackout of what was going on in the Marshalls, and the prevalent principle of gekokujo within the IJA make a capture and imprisonment likely had she landed within the Marshalls. So that is speculation but so is the ditch and sink scenario.quick to jump on the Japanese Prisoner bandwagon
No Robert it does not. The photo, if verified would have been documentation of the story Marshallese natives had been telling since after WWII. The Marshall Island stamps were issued long before that photo. The original stories were by actual eye witnesses though now they have become heresay since these men have died. The same is true of the 200 or so people on Saipan who actually saw Earhart and a few of those are alive even todayThe photo takes out the whole issue of the ship supposedly used to transport them and tow their plane.
Definition: The people who agree with me...anyone else is a "nutcase"As more and more true investigators
Again, like Lindbergh's treatment this is not germane. Pangborn had left on July 27th and landed in Japan on August 8, 1931. The Japanese invasion of Manchuria did not occur until September 18, 1931. The installations photographed by Pangborn were hardly in the same state of war preparations as they would be in 1937. Japan was still a member of the League of Nations and had not withdrawn so it had not been isolated and US embargos had not been imposed. They were dealing with a much different Japan than it would be in 1937 and they were in Tokyo dealing with civilian courts not in an isolated island group dealing with the Kenpeitai.In fact, how would Earhart and Noonan have been treated by Japanese if they had been captured ?
Another scenario was that the pair was taken by Japanese ship to Yap, and then a flight by Japanese Naval Seaplane to Saipan.
Joe, you are somewhat correct. Unfortunately at this late date speculation and conjecture are all the probably remains. BUT there are some documented sources such as her fuel report that shows 1156 gallons of fuel at take off and at fuel consumption of 42 gallons per hour she had 27 flying hours. So at 20 hours 15 minutes, she had burned 850.50 gallons of fuel and had between 4.5 and 5.5 hours of fuel remaining. More than enough to reach a land mass. That of course does not preclude a ditching but does make it a more remote possibility. The permission letter and its written refusal are another smoking gun. She had asked and been denied and then in spite of that did it anyway!! What would THAT say to the Japanese were she captured? To get something labeled as conspiracy is an automatic way to get a majority to discount it, mission accomplished.
It is also strange that every time something concrete is discovered it manages to disappear. Bones have been found 3 times. The skeleton on Nik, bones from a grave on Saipan reported to be Earhart's dug up by two Marines, a brief case found in a safe in Kenpeitat Headquarters on Saipan, and years later bone fragments from that same grave. All vanished after being turned in to higher authorities
n have died. The same is true of the 200 or so people on Saipan who actually saw Earhart and a few of those are alive even today
The photo was the main evidence of the ship in question and was used to "prove" that specific ship was used. Read the book you quote from. That photo WAS their proof. As to the eyewitnesses, it is simply too convenient that the ONLY person they spoke to was the author of this book. She lists no other sources for those eyewitnesses, and living or dead they apparently never came forward to anyone else. Unless you can find an independent verification of their "testimony" it might as well be a figment of the authors imagination. The stamps honestly prove absolutely nothing other than they were well known celebrities of the day which were often used as subjects of stamps.No Robert it does not. The photo, if verified would have been documentation of the story Marshallese natives had been telling since after WWII. The Marshall Island stamps were issued long before that photo. The original stories were by actual eye witnesses though now they have become heresay since these men have died. The same is true of the 200 or so people on Saipan who actually saw Earhart and a few of those are alive even today
Japan was still a member of the League of Nations and had not withdrawn so it had not been isolated and US embargos had not been imposed. They were dealing with a much different Japan than it would be in 1937 and they were in Tokyo dealing with civilian courts not in an isolated island group dealing with the Kenpeitai.
Not to mention that the principle of gekokujo did not apply in civilian life only to the military who were not trying this case.
Have to run, I have a dinner meeting with Elvis and then I am going dancing with Marilyn Monroe. See you all soon.
Very true but again base on what is actually documented the 42 gph is reasonable and Yea another assunption. Remember, this issue was discussed at length with Art Kennedy, who had overhauled her engines prior to the second attempt, and who calibrated her engines with PRATT & WHITNEY factory test equipment. His test cell engine records still exist and barring fuel cell leakage and gross mixture control mismanagement, she had between 4.5 and 5.5 hours of fuel remaining after her 20:14 [8:44 am Howland Time] transmission. This calculation was made by Kennedy a man who would know. Secondly, again documented, we can apply the plane's performance during its 2,400-mile Oakland to Honolulu flight in March 1937. Records show that the Electra consumed 617 of the 947 gallons it held during the fifteen-hour, fifteen-minute Honolulu flight, for an average per-hour burn rate of 38.97 gallons. Round that off to forty gallons per hour. At Lae, loaded with 200 more gallons (1,200 pounds) the plane was about 800 pounds heavier, add one gallon per hour for the extra weight (which would decrease with time) and another gallon per hour in consideration of the plane's climb to higher altitudes after leaving Lae. With 1,156 gallons departing Lae, at an average consumption of 42 gph, at 20 hours 15 minutes, she had burned 850.50 gallons of fuel and had close to 6 hours left before fuel exhaustion so dropping that to 4 hours still gives her flight time.First no one knows if she was burning 42 gallons per hour. If she decided to fly rich for engine cooling purposes or had a any type of head wind that blows that out.
Yes, there were, but none trying to over fly a Japanese territory that they had been keeping as totally restricted as possible for years and had denied everyone access. The very reason Roosevelt was so anxious to find out exactly what they were up to in this area. Based on this another theory is that Earhart never intended to land at Howland but intended to "get lost" thus giving the US Navy an excuse to search in restricted areas. Joe, think militarily. If you had asked a superior permission to do something and been denied and then did it anyway what would be the result? As opposed to doing without asking and asking forgiveness afterward? So Earhart ASKING and being DENIED makes any type of overflight so much worse if/when captured.There were many pilots trying to break records that were denied civil flight permits during that period
Yea, it's the "nutcases" that give conspiracy theory a bad rep. I've been called MUCH worse in my time. I do realize that I can be and possibly am wrong but, IMHO the crash land, rescue, in Japanese hands, imprisonment scenario is highly plausibleI bet there are at least 1000 people in Nashville alone who had seen Elvis.
In the sense of "prove" I'd have to agree. In Amelia Earhart : The Final Story, Vince Loomis went to considerable efforts to dig out the records of what Japanese ships were in the Marshalls in July 1937. He was trying to confirm what ship his witness, Bilimon Amaron, had boarded and which had been seen carrying the Earhart Electra on its aft deck. His book claims that he was able to determine that the Japanese really did not carry out the search for Earhart they later claimed to have made, because the ships of the "12th Squadron" supposedly used in the search were, in fact, in port in Japan the whole time. The only ship Loomis could come up with anywhere near the Marshalls was the seaplane tender Koshu. She was in Ponape, about 400 miles west of the Marshalls, on July 2, 1937 and arrived in Jaluit in the Marshalls on July 13. Loomis says Koshu then left Jaluit sailing for SaipanThe photo was the main evidence of the ship in question and was used to "prove" that specific ship was used
League of Nations -The U.S. was not a member of the League of Nations either (why ?) but tightened her watch on Japan since 1933. In 1937 only, the U.S. government frequently asked Japanese government to allow her naval warships to visit Japanese ports. Japanese government accepted them as much as it could but looks tired in the end of the year. What would have happened if Japan had hidden Earhart and Noonan ? Awful to imagine.
Actually no one did offer the stamps as proof of anything except as evidence of how widespread the story and belief in it had become in the Marshall Islands as witness after witness came forthSpeaking of stamps used for proof...
By real investigators I mean those with degrees in investigative journalism as well as actual trained investigators
And with an attitude like that you have to question WHY "real" investigators shy away from topics like this? I don't consider you to be uneducated or I-Gor-Ent Neither yet you continually resort to ridicule when things don't match your preconceived notions.Have to run, I have a dinner meeting with Elvis and then I am going dancing with Marilyn Monroe. See you all soon.