Early PR Spitfires

[Spitfire pr1v]

Hi. Does anyone know what the small intake and vent on the port engine cowl on the early PR I ( A, B , C, F) was for ? Standard fighter versions don't have them .

Thanks
Richard

 

[fastmongrel]

Not a Spitfire expert but I know that some of the PR versions were fitted with cockpit heating. It's possible the intake is part of the heater.

 

[Spitfire pr1v]

Hi Fastmongrel. Thanks for the suggestion but cockpit heating only came in on the PRIVs and later variations as far as I know,

 

[pbehn]

Hi Fastmongrel. Thanks for the suggestion but cockpit heating only came in on the PRIVs and later variations as far as I know,

Ive been looking to see what accessories are there https://i.pinimg.com/736x/a7/34/67/a73467b995cdb5fa41dae79148bb670a--air-planes-cutaway.jpg

 

[Denniss]

Original image seems to be of the Type F Spitfire X4492. I spot a rectengular opening somewhat behind this small air intake so it seems to be cooling related.
The Type F were upgrade to Merlin 45 engines (as Spit V) from mid 1941 so maybe someting required more cooling than the original Merlin III

 

[Wurger]

Yep that's the kite .... here are two other shots ...

the pic source: Harold A. Skaarup web pages

 

[Glider]

I must admit that I don't think that they are Spitfire PR Type A's. The contour of the nose is wrong.

 

[pbehn]

SPITFIRE PR III

Spitfire IA with armament removed, extra fuel tank and Camera fitted for photographic reconnaissance. All modified from existing IA machines. A larger oil tank under the nose gave it a less streamlined profile, but extended the range.



From here A description of all the different marks of Supermarine Spitfire and Seafire

 

[Glider]

SPITFIRE PR III

Spitfire IA with armament removed, extra fuel tank and Camera fitted for photographic reconnaissance. All modified from existing IA machines. A larger oil tank under the nose gave it a less streamlined profile, but extended the range.



From here A description of all the different marks of Supermarine Spitfire and Seafire

I get what your saying, but I didn't think that the early Mk1 PR aircraft didn't have the additional oil tank. I certainly could be wrong on this but I thought it was the Mk 2 or PR Mk 2 that first had additional fuel

 

[pbehn]

I get what your saying, but I didn't think that the early Mk1 PR aircraft didn't have the additional oil tank. I certainly could be wrong on this but I thought it was the Mk 2 or PR Mk 2 that first had additional fuel

I was just trying to be helpful. Elsewhere in the link it talks about oil tanks being installed in the unused gun bays. Changing the use of the Spitfire to long hour missions involved more fuel and more oil, because they consumed a lot of oil, same for the P-51B/C and later variants which needed a bigger oil tank.

 

[Glider]

No your right and I am quite probably wrong. I know that a large part of the additional oil was in a tank that was under the nose giving it a different nose. The very first handful didn't have any additional fuel or oil, but I do mean a very small number.

It doesn't alter the question which is valid, what are those vents for as I don't know either. It was wrong of me to divert the thread

 

[pbehn]

No your right and I am quite probably wrong. I know that a large part of the additional oil was in a tank that was under the nose giving it a different nose. The very first handful didn't have any additional fuel or oil, but I do mean a very small number.

It doesn't alter the question which is valid, what are those vents for as I don't know either. It was wrong of me to divert the thread

I posted a cutaway of a Spitfire up the thread, I think the dynamo is in that general area. But I saw an article ages ago about Spitfires and there were all sorts of accessories that needed cooling or at least fresh air that were moved about the air frame.

 

[fastmongrel]

I read somewhere that PR Spitfires sometimes had different compasses fitted for better accuracy. It might be something to do with a Gyroscope compass drive.

Unfortunately the man who would have known Edgar Brooks is no longer with us, he is sadly missed.

 

[Crimea_River]

Hundreds of obscure Spitfire questions asked and answered here. The answer may or may not be there. Vol 2 All the Spitfire questions here

 

[Spitfire pr1v]

Thanks everyone for your helpful comments. It is only the PR IA, IB, IC and IF that have these . They were initially fitted with either Merlin III and/or Merlin XII engines - the early PR Spitfires were often modified on site.
Wurger - your photos are great, clearer than mine, showing the intake and vent.
Pbehn - I think maybe an electrical venting might be the answer, with a larger dynamo fitted, for the extra power to supply the cameras and their motors ?

 

[Wurger]

Wurger - your photos are great, clearer than mine, showing the intake and vent.

Glad I could help a little bit.

 

[pbehn]

Pbehn - I think maybe an electrical venting might be the answer, with a larger dynamo fitted, for the extra power to supply the cameras and their motors ?

I dont know if they fitted a larger dynamo or that a P/R Spitfire had much more electrical equipment, it may have been a precaution due to the longer length of time in the air.

 

[pbehn]

If you google pictures of Boulton Paul Defiants and Fairey Battles there are all sorts of various inlet and outlet variations in that area.

 

[Wurger]

Some history of the X4492...a PR.Mk IV arrived in Canada 12 Feb 1943 for camera trials

"FF 14-9-40 RAE 17-9-40 PDU HAL Cv PRIV(W) PRU 14-11-40 R-RH 18-4-41 Cv Va M45 1PRU 29-4-41 8MU 15-11-41 Cv PRVII Type F AAEE Cv proto FVI M47 extended wing tips known as experimental aircraft 152 to ROC. trials with 3 and 4 blade props 140S 12-2-42 47MU 5-12-42 Manchester Progress 16-1-43 Rockcliffe Canada 17-2-43 36in telephoto camera trials 7-43 Used to photo total eclipse of sun 9-7-45 F24 oblique install to sight upwards. Pilot F/Lt Percival "

the source:Spitfire pilots and aircraft database - Spitfire X4492

Also sam info can be found here ... Spitfire X4492
And here ... Warbird Information Exchange • View topic - 1945 RCAF "Operation Eclipse" ...

 

[Spitfire pr1v]

Wurger - Thanks. I have looked up X4492 also; starting life as a Mark Ia
Contract No. B19713
Engine: Rolls Royce Merlin III then PDU changes

Pbehn - The Paul Bolton Defiant Mk 1 ( Merlin III ) has a very similar intake / vent arrangement ........Perhaps the answer is with the Rolls Royce Merlin III ? Thanks for the help - will keep looking