Now find the pressurized Buffalo
eBay: Brewster Buffalo
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Snautzer01
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- Mar 26, 2007
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MIflyer
1st Lieutenant
I believe this shot has been "colorized."
MIflyer
1st Lieutenant
I have a full size print of this. Squadron was selling them for a few bucks a while back.
vikingBerserker
Lieutenant General
Dang, sorry I missed that. Cool pic!
MIflyer
1st Lieutenant
At only $2.00 or so each I should have bought more than one print. It is the cover painting for the Buffalo in Action book and I think one outfit used it as the box top art for a model kit. Assuming it is accurate that artwork shows the only combat the F2A was in with US pilots, and probably its only victory for the US. As we discussed a while back, the USAAF flew ex-Dutch Buffalo aircraft in Australia, but only as unarmed trainers.
I had the worst interview of my life at Dayton T. Brown, the company formed by the designer of the Buffalo and I remember there being a large Brewster Buffalo painting in the lobby.
Greg Boeser
1st Sergeant
VMF-221 encountered a Japanese flying boat reconnoitering Midway on March 10, 1942, shooting it down.
MIflyer
1st Lieutenant
One of the little known facts about Midway was that there were IJN aircraft flying out of Wake Island, including Betty bombers, that were in the battle, making life hell for the PBY crews.
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
About 40 years ago I made a sales call at a company in Pennsylvania (I think). There was a big mural of a Buffalo on the wall.
The Finnish Buffalos flew against very poorly trained and poorly led Soviet pilots in flying coffins at low levels where the Buffalo performed best. As soon as the Soviets got decent fighters and some training, the Finns had to switch to Bf109Gs to avoid being massacred.
The Commonwealth and American pilots had to try intercepting Japanese bombers and fighters at medium- and high-altitudes, where they had to use one hand to pump fuel continuously, otherwise the engine stopped! In no way at all did the Buffalo have any performance advantage over any Japanese opponent at the altitudes the Allies fought with Buffalos, not even the Nakajima Ki-27, and definitely not compared to their most common opponents, the Ki-43 and the Zero. The only good tactic the RAF Buffalo pilots had was to try and get a height advantage of 3000-odd feet and make a diving attack out of the sun, but because the Buffalo climbed so badly and the RAF had no early warning, the situation of diving on the Japanese rarely presented itself. By comparison, the Finns flew the majority of their combats below 10,000ft against fighters the Buffalo had a 30-50mph advantage over. Your comparison is simply ill-informed.
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SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
Did an American Buffalo actually down a Zero?
fubar57
General
"Brewster F2A Buffalo Aces of World War 2" mentions 2Lt. Charles M. Kunz, USMC with 2 kills. I'll read through it and see if I can find the types shot down
fubar57
General
The two shoot downs were Type 99 D3A Vals
Finns did not think that Soviet pilots of e.g. 7 IAP (Fighter Regiment) or 153 IAP were poorly trained. I-153 was 40 km/h slower than Brewster, but the max. speeds of I-16s were 36 km/h slower (Tip 10) or 5 km/h faster (Tip 24) than that of Brewster, but at lower altitudes Tip 24's superiority in the level speed was bigger, it was some 20 km/h faster. MiG-3s was significantly faster, some 60 km/h at sea level, 120 km/h faster at the FTH of Brewster (4750 m), after that clearly more so, being some 195 km/h faster at 8000 m.
Our most famous fighter sqn, HLeLv 24 used Brewsters up to spring 1944, but at least from late 1943 onwards had been in trouble with newest Soviet fighters, especially with La-5s. But when it got Bf 109Gs, it transferred its surviving Brewsters, very weary by then, to another fighter sqn, HLeLv 26, which had used Fiat G.50s previously. Our first unit to get Bf 109Gs had been HLeLv 34, which was formed especially to be the first 109 unit of the FiAF in spring 1943.
Hi,
Hopefully not getting too far off track but as noted by others it appears that the Finnish Airforce continued to use their B239s straight through to the end of the Continuation War with the Soviet Union (25 June 1941 – 19 September 1944 (3 years, 2 months, 3 weeks and 4 days)) [See Wikipedia].
As for the Bf109s, it is my understanding that they were not purchased until early 1943, with the first batch of 14 being delivered on March 14th of that year, and another 16 delivered on May 10th with that types first successful combat in the Finnish Airforce occurring on March 24th [see Link].
The link above notes some combined operations with both Finnish B239s and Bf109s such as an event on 21 May that appears to have included 11 Finnish Bf109s, 12 German flown Bf109s and 16 B239s. As such it does not appear that the Bf109 "replaced" the B239 in Finnish service but rather started to become their top fighter with others, including the B239, continuing to support them.
Specifically the link above also notes that during the Soviet's Summer offensive of 1944:
"During the Soviet offensive, which lasted 38 days, The Finnish Bf-109s and B-239s claimed 425 Soviet aircraft destroyed and another 78 damaged, while the Fw-190s of II/JG 54 led by Major Erich Rudorffer scored a further 126 victories."
Regards
Pat
Hopefully not getting too far off track but as noted by others it appears that the Finnish Airforce continued to use their B239s straight through to the end of the Continuation War with the Soviet Union (25 June 1941 – 19 September 1944 (3 years, 2 months, 3 weeks and 4 days)) [See Wikipedia].
As for the Bf109s, it is my understanding that they were not purchased until early 1943, with the first batch of 14 being delivered on March 14th of that year, and another 16 delivered on May 10th with that types first successful combat in the Finnish Airforce occurring on March 24th [see Link].
The link above notes some combined operations with both Finnish B239s and Bf109s such as an event on 21 May that appears to have included 11 Finnish Bf109s, 12 German flown Bf109s and 16 B239s. As such it does not appear that the Bf109 "replaced" the B239 in Finnish service but rather started to become their top fighter with others, including the B239, continuing to support them.
Specifically the link above also notes that during the Soviet's Summer offensive of 1944:
"During the Soviet offensive, which lasted 38 days, The Finnish Bf-109s and B-239s claimed 425 Soviet aircraft destroyed and another 78 damaged, while the Fw-190s of II/JG 54 led by Major Erich Rudorffer scored a further 126 victories."
Regards
Pat
Greg Boeser
1st Sergeant
You bring up a good point of the disadvantages faced by the Allied pilots flying Brewsters in the early Pacific War. The RAF machines were not well maintained, suffering all sorts of mechanical issues, from engine failure to gun failures. This I lay at the feet of the leadership. SEA was for the British a colonial backwater and suffered from all manner of shortages. This was made worse by the sad fact that it became the dumping ground for officers that were not up to snuff for the "real" war in Europe. When the Japanese attacked they simply could not shake off their peacetime mentality and respond effectively. Here I am talking about the high command as the squadrons were more than willing to fight, often being held back by staff officers who lacked initiative. This resulted in opportunities missed and aircraft lost on the ground due to failure to react in a timely fashion. Much of air fighting was at low to medium altitude. The lack of early warning certainly was a significant disadvantage for the RAF. But again, this is not the fault of the machine, but of the circumstances of its employment.
The most common fighter type encountered by RAF Buffalos was the Ki-27. Only two sentai of Japanese Army AF were equipped with Ki-43. Yes, the Zero was a formidable foe, better top speed, better acceleration, more maneuverable, and flown by the best pilots in the Pacific in 1941-1942. The RAF and Commonwealth pilots as well as the US Marine pilots simply lacked the training and experience in comparison.
The USMC F2As only encountered Japanese aircraft on two occasions. 10 March, 1942, when they successfully intercepted an IJN flying boat off of Midway at 7000 ft and shot it down.
On June 4, 1942 they intercepted the first wave of incoming aircraft of the Japanese Kido Butai, 36 level and dive bombers escorted by 36 Zeroes, which was flying at 11,000 ft. Their decision to ignore the escort and attack the bombers directly left them vulnerable to the Zeroes. The Marines at Midway benefitted from RADAR direction, allowing them to attack with a significant height advantage, but on 4 June they could not overcome the disadvantage of being outnumbered by the faster and heavily armed Zeroes.
Greg Boeser
1st Sergeant
PFVA63,
The Bf-109 didn't replace so much as supercede the B-239 as the premier Finnish fighter type.
The Bf-109 didn't replace so much as supercede the B-239 as the premier Finnish fighter type.
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