eBay: Japanese airplanes and other hardware.

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Snautzer01 said:
Nakajima Ki-84 Hayate captured beute

View attachment 720108


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World War ll American G.I. Sitting In Japanese Zero Airplane Cockpit Photo | eBay

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Note the chopped props. Gen. Douglas MacArthur's surrender terms prescribed that all Japanese aircraft including unarmed types like transports had to be disabled to prevent retaliatory revenge attacks by rogue pilots.
,
Needless to say I don't think I heard a single unit or individual pilot tried to perform such actions. Although pilots of the famous N1K2-J Shiden-KAIs of 343 Kokutai commanded by Cdr GENDA Minoru did seek to fight on after the surrender but were overruled by JNAF Headquarters.

The main method of disabling aircraft was removal of the prop and spinner but chopping the prop blades is also seen in a lot of photos. The other popular method was to collapse the main gear on one side of the aircraft (either port or starboard). I'm no engineer or pilot but I think it would be easy enough to sit in the cockpit and ensuring the hydraulics were primed pull the lever for undercarriage retraction. Maybe you could do it on the ground just use a hammer to give the lock mechanism a good belt then run like hell before you get crushed.

Ki-67 Hiryu dropped Ucarriage or jacked up Kumanosho Japan 1945-MOKY_CS1_lo.jpg


Not sure if this Ki-67 Hiryu has had its port undercarriage collapsed (it appears to have dropped down on that side). Or is it being jacked up after the event. What do you think?

Moky for JEC
 
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Jeffrey Ethell Collection said:
The main method of disabling aircraft was removal of the prop and spinner but chopping the prop blades is also seen in a lot of photos. The other popular method was to collapse the main gear on one side of the aircraft (either port or starboard). I'm no engineer or pilot but I think it would be easy enough to sit in the cockpit and ensuring the hydraulics were primed pull the lever for undercarriage retraction. Maybe you could do it on the ground just use a hammer to give the lock mechanism a good belt then run like hell before you get crushed.

View attachment 720633

Not sure if this A/c has had its port undercarriage dropped or is it being jacked up after the event. What do you think?

Moky for JEC
Click to expand...
Its not that easy to retract the MLG of aircraft, it is designed to not retract when there is weight on the wheels. First you would have to simulate the aircraft in the air, on modern A/C you would pull the circuit breakers for the ground control relay. Them you have to have hydraulic pressure, on A/C with electric hydraulic pumps that is as simple as turning them on. But as I understand it most single engined A/C of that era only had an engine driven Hyd. pump, or possible a emergency hand pump. (correct me if I am wrong please) I for one would not want to be in the cockpit with the engine running and pull the gear handle up with all the safeties overridden! I would be afraid of where the prop blades would go!
I guess you could hook up a portable hydraulic mule (Cart) if one was available. Now if we get past all those hurdles, would the MLG of a tail wheel A/C actually retract with weight on the wheels? I don't know. On most modern A/C the MLG actually moves downward for the initial retraction process, so the hydraulic system has to be strong enough to actually lift the portion of the A/C that is supported by the MLG. Usually the 3000psi systems could not do that. Now the Nose gear will retract, I have actually seen it accomplished two times in the past, on a DC8, and a 727, both times it was ugly, people were hurt, and the 727 was totaled as its tail was pushed up into the hangars roof beams. Both times it occured because people got complainant and the person throwing the gear handle did not double check that all the gear was pinned in the lowered position.
Back on Topic will a WWII era Hydraulic system be powerful enough to actually retract the MLG? I don't know. Where the MLG design like the more modern A.C and have to swing down before arcing up into the wheel wells? I suspect the answer is some of them. But again I don't know. I assume the tail wheel would retract if the safeties where overridden.

As for the Ki-67 in the photo, by the looks of the way the fuselage is sitting on lumber, and with all the other missing parts, I believe it was being used for spare parts long before that picture was taken. The Left MLG is probably removed, not just retracted. Just My Opinion. Others may very.

I would be very interested to find out if all WWII era A/C used weight on wheel switch's if they had retractable landing gear.
 
Jeffrey Ethell Collection said:
Note the chopped props. Gen. Douglas MacArthur's surrender terms prescribed that all Japanese aircraft including unarmed types like transports had to be disabled to prevent retaliatory revenge attacks by rogue pilots.
,
Needless to say I don't think I heard a single unit or individual pilot tried to perform such actions. Although pilots of the famous N1K2-J Shiden-KAIs of 343 Kokutai commanded by Cdr GENDA Minoru did seek to fight on after the surrender but were overruled by JNAF Headquarters.

The main method of disabling aircraft was removal of the prop and spinner but chopping the prop blades is also seen in a lot of photos. The other popular method was to collapse the main gear on one side of the aircraft (either port or starboard). I'm no engineer or pilot but I think it would be easy enough to sit in the cockpit and ensuring the hydraulics were primed pull the lever for undercarriage retraction. Maybe you could do it on the ground just use a hammer to give the lock mechanism a good belt then run like hell before you get crushed.

View attachment 720633

Not sure if this A/c has had its port undercarriage dropped or is it being jacked up after the event. What do you think?

Moky for JEC
Click to expand...

Even in the thirties on the majority of aircraft retracting the undercarraige on the ground was impossible because overcentre locks will hold it. On most aircraft the hydraulics do not have the power to overcome the locks when there is weight on them. Some aircraft also have mechanical locks that prevent the selection of gear up if there is any weight on the gear. One possible way to overcome this is to put a lot of weight on the opposite wing as far outboard as possible to unload the gear you want to retract.

As for using a hammer and "run like hell" - only if you are very very suicidal.

A far easier method would be a small explosive charge on the drag brace(s).
 
Thanks Cammerjeff & MiTasol,

I guess the airlines and air forces would want to make it pretty hard for anyone either with intent or accidentally, to retract the landing gear of an aircraft on the ground given they cost many tens of millions of dollars.

Methinks WWII aircarft may have been a touch easier but, as you say, it is not as simple as pulling (or pushing) the retract UC lever because the lock mechanism would refuse to relinquish its hold when there is weight on the gear. Maybe they had a jack under the wing and with the weight off the wheel they retracted that wheel then kickd the jack away.

The number of different ways they could do it would be matched only by the ingenuity of the ground crew mechanics.

However, not so sure of the explosive technique as aircraft wing fuel tanks are full of explosive gasses which a bit of hot metal from the charge would cause a major conflagation.

Ki-67_Hiryu_Kengun-airfield_Kumanosho_Kyushu_Japan_1945-MOKY-CS1_lo.jpg


If you look at this lineup of Hiryu after the surrender notice how the rear 2 A/c have their port wing raised as you can see the dark underside with hinomaru. This may suggest that these A/c have had their starboard main gear collapsed thus raising the wing on the port side. Yes?

Moky for JEC
 
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Disarmament procedure instructed by Imperial GHQ to each unit (Confirmation report by Colonel Sugita on August 28, 1945)

1. Prohibition of flight.

2. Remove the propeller and engine generator. To puncture the tyre is better.

3. Units which have the possibility of rebellion (especially kamikaze units) should be demobilized as soon as possible.

4. Some necessary personnel should remain at each airfield to manage military materials and others.

Source: JACAR Ref. code: C16120025200
 
Thanks Shinpachi,

First Imperial HQ instructions to air units I've seen. Japanese pilots would rather die than disobey orders. So these instructions would have been followed to the letter I assume.

Puncturing/flattening the tyres was a popular method. This pair of Navy Type 0 fighters (A6M5 Zero) were at Tebrau, Malaya for flight testing by ATAIU and now have flat tyres to dissuade rogue pilots from seeking revenge against the Allies. Well that is how MacArthur saw it. I'm not so sure there was much desire for revenge by the Japanese after 4 years of bitter fighting for an unwinable war.

A6M5 Zer0-sen captrd ATAIU Tebrau Malaya CBI 1945-RAFMus-scaled_1.jpg


Credit: RAF Museum, Hendon UK image

Moky for JEC
 
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Shinpachi said:
Photos will be quicker to explain. This was clearly against the Geneva Convention.

Tokyo Air Raid on March 10, 1945. Some other dates may be mixed.
View attachment 714159View attachment 714160View attachment 714161View attachment 714162View attachment 714163View attachment 714164View attachment 714165View attachment 714166View attachment 714167View attachment 714168
Source: Tokyo Air Raids Photo Album (1953)
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Nanking or Shanghai ring a bell?
 
Peter Gunn said:
Not trying to be argumentative Shinpachi Shinpachi but if we're going to start talking possible war crimes, March '45 isn't a starting point for the Pacific War:

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Japanese learned American viewpoint a lot in the postwar.
So, I have shown what Americans hesitate to learn at school.
LeMay did not know details of the Nanking Incident until April 1946 when the military tribunal was held in Tokyo.
So, this can't be excuse for his 'war crime' at least.
 
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Shinpachi said:
Japanese learned American viewpoint a lot in the postwar.
So, I have shown what Americans hesitate to learn at school.
LeMay did not know details of the Nanking Incident until April 1946 when the military tribunal was held in Tokyo.
So, this can't be excuse for his 'war crime' at least.
Click to expand...
I like you too much to start any arguments Shin, let's just agree to disagree, "incidents" in China in the late '30's shall we say were already well known in the U.S. before 7/12/41.

So with that said, I'm game to move on.

Peace my friend.
 
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