End of WW2 -- second part

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Plan_D again did I say anywhere that it was all Englands fault. No I did not. Please stop acting like everyone is personally attacking England. It was the Allies fault as a whole.

 

[plan_D]

It wasn't the Allies fault as a whole though. It was only France that could have acted. How would it have been any of the other Allies fault when they couldn't act without the support of France?

 

[syscom3]

Really? They despised the Nazis? Is that why Hitler was Times Magazine Man of the Year: 1938? America thought the world of Germany for dragging itself out of a hole.

The Time "man of the year" is for anyone that has had an impact on the world........ its not for popularity or approval.

A few vocal people singing their praises of Hitler did not indicate the vast majority of people hated him.

 

[Nonskimmer]

It still wouldn't be nearly as bad as the Canadian athletes flashing Hitler the Nazi salute at the 1936 Olympic games in Berlin, as they marched past.

They weren't the only team to do so, but still. Many wrongs in no way make a right.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

That I did not know, did they really do that?

 

[Nonskimmer]

Yep. The athletes from some countries did. Mine was one of them. The mentality being "When in Rome...". It still doesn't make it right.

 

[evangilder]

I don't think in 1936, anyone had any idea what was to come. The evil came after that.

 

[plan_D]

The U.S had it's own Nazi party. There were many people that had deep respect for Germany and it's reorganisation of industry. As evan correctly stated, not many people understood what Germany was doing in 1936.

It seems to me that you find the idea of Americans praising Nazis as insulting. Well, it certainly shouldn't be because it did happen. And I know that British praised Germany too. People from all over the world praised Germany and the Nazis. They did not know the facts and they did not know what was coming.

The only man I know of that saw Germany as a threat was Churchill whom stated in 1934; "Germany is becoming the next great threat in Europe".

 

[Nonskimmer]

Yes, even little ol' Canada had a Nazi party. The Parti national socialiste chrétien (National Socialist Christian Party), founded in Québec in the 1930's.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Crazy. I always new there was a US Nazi party before WW2. It was called the German-American Bund and was headed by Fritz Kuhn. There are still several Nazi Parties in the US still today, most formed after the war such as the American Neo-Nazi party formed in 1959.

American Nazi Party
Aryan Nations
Aryan Brotherhood
Creativity Movement (formerly World Church of the Creator)
Libertarian National Socialist Green Party
National Alliance
National Socialist Party of America
National Socialist Movement (NSM88)
NSDAP-AO
Overthrow.com (Bill White)
White Aryan Resistance

Ofcourser there are also Nazi Parties in Germany also still today such as the NDP and The Republikaner.

In my opinion though all of these groups are just ignorant fools that have no education.

 

[plan_D]

They're certainly not going to be getting anywhere in the political world, that's for sure.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

You are correct. I just think it is amazing that there are people that are ignorant eneogh to still do this stuff.

 

[plan_D]

I know what you're saying. But even after what happened 60 years ago I don't care that these people exist. Y'know, they think how they think, you think how you think. Just be safe in the knowledge, they won't get anywhere.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I agree with you, dont take me wrong.

 

[syscom3]

Second of all the Japs were a far more effective fighting force then you give them credit. Guadal Canal did not go on for 6 months because the Marines and the Navy wanted it to.

A harbringer of things to come was the vicious fight over New Georgia. Here the Japanese garrison planned to be on the defensive and knew there would be no relief. They used jungle cover to devestaing effect. There were more US footsoldier casualties here in eight weeks of fighting than all of the six months of fighting over Guadalcanal.

Before any offensive action could really begin in the Pacific, the USN had to deploy enough Essex class carriers to smother any Japanese air attacks that might be thrown at them. This was not going to happen untill late 1943. The building of the carriers was already on emergency schedule, so no wishfull thinking was going to alter the fact, that they would not be ready before that time.

In addition, as amply demonstrated by the Japanese army throughout the Pacific war, its easy to move the divisions forward to their operational area, but it was hell keeping them supplied. Even with no fighting, both the allied and Japanese forces whole units lost a lot of combat strength just from the climate and disease. New Guinie was called the "Green Hell" for a reason.

Aemebic dysentary and malaria were rampant. The heat, rain and humidity tore at material with no respite. And the comments from the soldiers of the swarms of jungle insects is almost unprintable.

Untill 1944 when the supply train finally caught up with demands, the numbers of ground units that were forward deployed had to be kept at a rational level. Most of the harbors and anchorages were pitifull compared to Europe. Untill they were developed, there was going to be no full scale offensives in the PTO and CBI. Also think of the ships needed to keep just a division equiped. A ship sailing from San Franscisco needed one full month to get to Australia. Then another month to sail back. The logistics requirements of fighting in the PTO/CBI in 1942/43 were incredible.

Several years ago there was a couple of books that dealt with this, "Touched by fire" and "victory at sea". Both well written and it gives you a peek at the difficulties of fighting in that that area of the war. Something like 2/3rds of all the resources commited to the PTO had to be just in supply. Not the actual weapons of war, but cargo ships, personell, etc. Think of the tonnage needed to keep an eight carrier task force and a one division landing force supplied for one month.

The only scenario I see of an early defeat of Japan was to hit their maritime trade right in the choke point between the Philipines/ Formosa/China. And that would mean the USN solved the torpedo problem very early, and used agressive wolf pack tactics from the onset.

The pacific war was far different from the European war.

(Just my two cents worth)

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

It was very different. I think the Japanese were some of the best Jungle warfare soldiers that existed the only problem was that they were overwellmed and I dont think that there superiors were very good at leading the men. There tradition told them to fight to the end. IN many cases whole armies would commit suicide rather than admit defeat and capture. It was very bloody fighting but due to the Japanese way of conducting war there was no way they could win besides the fact that they had to resupply over vast oceans.

 

[syscom3]

I agree with you about them being great jungle fighters. Since they were essentially light infantry, they didnt need much supply. Plus they could handle depredation and lack of comforts much better than the allies, tells you something about their charachter.

In those books though, the authors claimed that the best jungle fighters of WW2 ended up being the Aussies. And I actually had to agree with him.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

The Aussies and the British had some great Jungle Fighting units.

 

[Nonskimmer]

The Chindits being among them. PD's grandad was one.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Yeap I was actually going to mention that PD could probably give some really good info about that.