Excluding Spitfires and Hurricanes, best fighter for Malaya 1940-41?

[Admiral Beez]

Spitfires and Hurricanes were refused for Malaya service in 1940-41 as they were needed for Home and North Africa. Some Hurricanes were eventually sent in Jan 1942.

If the Brewster Buffalo has not been made available, and no Spitfires or Hurricanes are sent, what is the best RAF fighter for Malaya? In addition to British aircraft, US types are to be considered, as the same British commission that evaluated and bought the Buffalo in 1939-40 will be in the US buying something. IIRC it's too soon for non-folding Martlets.

My pick is the Curtis P-36 (RAF Mohawk), shown below in India in 1943. But I'm not certain if 200+ aircraft would be available to the RAF in late 1940 in time to deploy to Malaya in early 1941.

The Blackburn Skua left FAA service in 1941. Maybe send some of these? Poor bastards.

 

[Greyman]

Mohawk IV

 

[Admiral Beez]

Britain was to order 300 Reggiane Re.2000 fighters and other equipment from Italy in 1939, but the order fell through. These might have been the best performing fighters to send, but IFF may pose obvious challenges.

 

[Kevin J]

Spitfires and Hurricanes were refused for Malaya service in 1940-41 as they were needed for Home and North Africa. Some Hurricanes were eventually sent in Jan 1942.

If the Brewster Buffalo has not been made available, and no Spitfires or Hurricanes are sent, what is the best RAF fighter for Malaya? In addition to British aircraft, US types are to be considered, as the same British commission that evaluated and bought the Buffalo in 1939-40 will be in the US buying something. IIRC it's too soon for non-folding Martlets.

My pick is the Curtis P-36 (RAF Mohawk), shown below in India in 1943. But I'm not certain if 200+ aircraft would be available to the RAF in late 1940 in time to deploy to Malaya in early 1941.

View attachment 558649

The Blackburn Skua left FAA service in 1941. Maybe send some of these? Poor bastards.

IIRC, delivery of the Mohawk IV was completed by September 1940; 177? Another 50 Mohawks I, II, & III made their way across the English Channel from France. IIRC the Buffalo was the better plane providing the engine worked properly and you didn't overload it with fuel.

Alternately, if CAC had developed & introduced the Boomerang in the 1940/41 time period rather than 1942/43 then that is technically possible. It was more rugged, had a more reliable engine but was slower and less manoeuvrable than the Buffalo.

Britain did fly prototypes of several single engine fighters for colonial use, none went into service. I imagine it was cheaper to buy American because of the small numbers required.

Mohawks I thru IV went into service in West, East and South Africa as well as India, so the best fighter, the Buffalo, went to Malaya.

The Demon like the Vanguard lacked both armour and self sealing fuel tanks. The later could have been fixed but production ran from September 1941 to April 1942, so it would have arrived to late for the outbreak of war in the Far East. The Demon would have been unacceptable to the RAF, too light and flimsy, no armour, or fuel tank protection.

That only leaves the Gladiator, 30 of which were offered but rejected and IIRC 125 P-35A's intended for Sweden which the Americans took.

 

[yulzari]

Instead of odds and sods worn Gladiators scraped together from across the Middle East (which was what was offered IOTL) how about a proper refurbishment of Gladiators to Malta type standards? New Mercuries with VP propellors and a 6 gun armament. Sea Gladiators being stripped of naval items. Either to go to Malaya or to go to the OTL Mohawk users releasing the Mohawks?

Mind you, the bigger difference to the campaign would have been more and better anti shipping aeroplanes. Best place to defeat the Japanese army is at sea.

 

[Kevin J]

Instead of odds and sods worn Gladiators scraped together from across the Middle East (which was what was offered IOTL) how about a proper refurbishment of Gladiators to Malta type standards? New Mercuries with VP propellors and a 6 gun armament. Sea Gladiators being stripped of naval items. Either to go to Malaya or to go to the OTL Mohawk users releasing the Mohawks?

Mind you, the bigger difference to the campaign would have been more and better anti shipping aeroplanes. Best place to defeat the Japanese army is at sea.

The RAF spotted the IJN invasion force coming, but they were in international waters heading for Thailand. So unless you want to start a war with Japan, it's a non starter. My preference is bomber / transports to enable resupply of our army in the event of them being encircled. That's how the holding of Kohima, the retaking of Burma worked, transports, resupply from the air.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Instead of odds and sods worn Gladiators scraped together from across the Middle East (which was what was offered IOTL) how about a proper refurbishment of Gladiators to Malta type standards? New Mercuries with VP propellors and a 6 gun armament. Sea Gladiators being stripped of naval items.

Either way, I think you're on the most likely track, that of Gladiators. Even against the Nakajima Ki-27 the Gladiators will be hard pressed.

Mind you, the bigger difference to the campaign would have been more and better anti shipping aeroplanes. Best place to defeat the Japanese army is at sea.

True. MTGBs, SSKs and Beaufighters would have stomped the essential landings from Formosa and FIC. Stop those and the Army can likely hold the Thai border. Leave Force Z at Ceylon, but sent whatever destroyers can be spared from the Atlantic ASW.

Best use of aircraft in Malaya's defence would have been in May 1940 with a parachute drop and British army airlift into FIC to "support" the French before Japan invades in Sept 1940. If FIC is secure, Malaya and DEI are safe. Of course this could have been done with ships, but this is the aircraft forum.

 

[tomo pauk]

If the Brewster Buffalo has not been made available, and no Spitfires or Hurricanes are sent, what is the best RAF fighter for Malaya? In addition to British aircraft, US types are to be considered, as the same British commission that evaluated and bought the Buffalo in 1939-40 will be in the US buying something.

P-40.

 

[Kevin J]

P-40.

Yes, agreed, but we need them in the Middle East. I imagine the Mohawk IV is superior to the Ki-27 and the equal of the Ki-43-I. The P-40 superior to both.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Yes, agreed, but we need them in the Middle East. I imagine the Mohawk IV is superior to the Ki-27 and the equal of the Ki-43-I. The P-40 superior to both.

I agree, I doubt the P-40 would be made available to Malayan defence.

What about joining the Dutch East Indies AF in their orders of the Curtiss-Wright CW-21? Is the Vultee Vanguard really that bad? Can't be worse than a Buffalo.

My absolute top pick would be to get the Miles M.20 produced either in the UK or in Canada/ANZ or India and shipped to Malaya. It seems to be the ideal colonial fighter.

 

[Kevin J]

I agree, I doubt the P-40 would be made available to Malayan defence.

What about joining the Dutch East Indies AF in their orders of the Curtiss-Wright CW-21? Is the Vultee Vanguard really that bad? Can't be worse than a Buffalo.

View attachment 558707

My absolute top pick would be to get the Miles M.20 produced either in the UK or in Canada/ANZ or India and shipped to Malaya. It seems to be the ideal colonial fighter.

View attachment 558709

We really need to get HAL producing fighters but they failed to make the Mohawk.

 

[tomo pauk]

I agree, I doubt the P-40 would be made available to Malayan defence.

What about joining the Dutch East Indies AF in their orders of the Curtiss-Wright CW-21? Is the Vultee Vanguard really that bad? Can't be worse than a Buffalo.

Love the P-66, and the CW-21 should be at least half-decent fighter hopefuly.

My absolute top pick would be to get the Miles M.20 produced either in the UK or in Canada/ANZ or India and shipped to Malaya. It seems to be the ideal colonial fighter.

Supposedly it have had much more fuel than Hurricane.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Love the P-66, and the CW-21 should be at least half-decent fighter hopefuly.



Supposedly it have had much more fuel than Hurricane.

Unfortunately Captain Eric "Winkle" Brown wasn't a fan of my proposed Miles M.20.

 

[Kevin J]

Unfortunately Captain Eric "Winkle" Brown wasn't a fan of my proposed Miles M.20.

I understood that it was more manoeuvrable, faster and had longer range. What did Eric have to say?

 

[Admiral Beez]

I understood that it was more manoeuvrable, faster and had longer range. What did Eric have to say?

My understanding is that he tested the naval variant. Perhaps the RAF version was fine, and just not produced because the BoB was over.

So, let's get making them for Malaya! I visited the Battlebox last year and was surprised to see an entire RAF director office, with the big table map, long sticks and aircraft markers. It just needed some good aircraft to direct.

 

[fubar57]

https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=953

 

[buffnut453]

My understanding is that he tested the naval variant. Perhaps the RAF version was fine, and just not produced because the BoB was over.

So, let's get making them for Malaya! I visited the Battlebox last year and was surprised to see an entire RAF director office, with the big table map, long sticks and aircraft markers. It just needed some good aircraft to direct.

Actually, it needed an established early warning system (which was lacking) and considerably more fighters than the 4 dedicated squadrons assigned (not counting 27 Sqn because they never actually undertook fighter ops). The Fighter HQ Ops Room Diary makes for interesting reading - somehow a copy survived and is held in the UK National Archives.

 

[Kevin J]

https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=953

Never knew the naval variant's top speed was only just over 300 mph or that the standard variant had a long take off run. Looks like it's overall performance was similar to the RAF's Tomahawk / FAA's Martlet.

 

[The Basket]

Definitely Defiant

 

[Kevin J]

Definitely Defiant

You must be joking.