F-104 Starfighters

[mikewint]

Pb, as I said before she is a beautiful girl, way ahead of her time and faster than my paycheck leaving my wallet. A very specialized tool for a VERY specific job. So if I wanted to dash in, faster than a speeding bullet, and drop a nuke on someone or interdict a group of incoming fighters she would be my pick too, but AFTER you interdict those incoming bandits what do you do except get shot down because they are a better FIGHTER albeit slower. The primary role of a FIGHTER aircraft is to fight, killing more of them than they of you. The F-104 cannot do that except in very specialized scenarios

 

[pbfoot]

Jeez guy it was also called "german Lawn Dart " but I think you better realize the USA some times get's thing right in this case they built designed the 104 unfortunately they were slow on the uptake on how to use it others had to learn how to use that tool and some excelled at it I wonder who won the Guynemer Trophy for best NATO gunfighter and what they flew
speaking of bribery and stuff how sure are you that the 104 wasn't put to rest by some lobbiests

 

[jjp_nl]

I too like the F-104 and it sure is a nice line of widowmakers. Still looking to build a Dutch one sometime.

I [...]Always liked the Starfighter, and remember seeing some RCAF birds at Prestwick, Scotland, in the early 1960s, making a noise like a radio being tuned as they landed !

I recall the same kinda whistling-like noise from when I was a little lad back in the early to mid eighties when the Dutch airforce was in the process of replacing their F-104's by the F-16. I missed the hey-day of the '104 but every so often in the eighties a few were still to be found at the AFB I lived (and still do) nearby and I still vividly recall their sound when they were doing engine test runs with their nozzle's pointed in our direction (and the wind coming from the right direction) One of those silly childhood memories.

The Germans had the highest loss rate with the -104 until they began an aggressive training program.

I believe it was formers Luftwaffe ace Johannes Steinhoff who was involved in researching the high 104 loss rate and concluded that the 104 wasn't necessarily a bad a/c, you just needed VERY good skills to handle it properly. As such Steinhoff suggested the intensive training on the 104.

 

[pbfoot]

I believe it was formers Luftwaffe ace Johannes Steinhoff who was involved in researching in high 104 loss rate and concluded that the 104 wasn't necessarily a bad a/c, you just needed VERY good skills to handle it properly. As such Steinhoff suggested the intensive training on the 104.

The LW had a major problem much like other AF`s in that the 104 was a quantum leap in technology from F86 , I believe those duties to get the LW up to speed were done by the RCAF

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I believe it was formers Luftwaffe ace Johannes Steinhoff who was involved in researching in high 104 loss rate and concluded that the 104 wasn't necessarily a bad a/c, you just needed VERY good skills to handle it properly. As such Steinhoff suggested the intensive training on the 104.

He did and there was also an extensive F-104 training program at several US bases in the 1960s.

Erich Hartman did not like the F-104 and it is believed his criticism of the aircraft led to his retirement from the Luftwaffe in 1970. Here some good info on German F-104s.

Starfighter with Luftwaffe

 

[pbfoot]

He did and there was also an extensive F-104 training program at several US bases in the 1960s.



Starfighter with Luftwaffe

I believe i just mispoke it with the Sabre not the 104 in which the RCAF led the training of LW

However to compare loss rates with the LW and RCAF one must consider this little pearl I just found

"About 110 CF-104/CF-104Ds were lost in accidents, out of 239 delivered - a loss rate of no less than 46 percent. However, it is only fair to point out that the Canadian CF-104s probably had the highest-flying time of any country operating the Starfighter. At the time of retirement, average airframe times were in the order of 6000 hours as compared to 2000 hours for the Luftwaffe."

 

[mikewint]

FBJ, 38-45 HOURS of maintainence for every One Hour in the air. I can hardly believe that statement. How does that rank with other military jets?

 

[pbfoot]

FBJ, 38-45 HOURS of maintainence for every One Hour in the air. I can hardly believe that statement. How does that rank with other military jets?

less then a F14 which needed 50 (quick internet search)

 

[vikingBerserker]

Wow, that's really amazing. I kinda suspect and hope most of it is preventive type maintenance?

 

[pbfoot]

Wow, that's really amazing. I kinda suspect and hope most of it is preventive type maintenance?

I could be wrong but believe that number includes overhauls and the such , I believe the F101 was about 70 hours, Rememeber there was no micro electrinics on the 104/101 it was mostly Cathode Ray tubes or transisitors and pulling 6g's