Depends on which model P-51...the "H" model was good for 487 MPH....I don't know of any Corsair model that was that fast...and there's nothing prettier than a Mustang...
F4U Corsair vs P-51 Mustang
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drgondog
Major
As a Mustang admirer, I have to note that the F4U-4 &5 and the P-51H were at the peak of 1945 US Fighters.
The F4U-5 should always out turn and out roll a P-51H through ~ 22000 feet based on the relative wing loadings and the P-51H standard rigging of 10 degrees aileron throw.
By comparison, as escort fighters the F4U-1 was fine for P-47D escort ranges at medium altitudes and the F4U--4&-5 was better at higher altitudes with 2 stage-2 speed superchargers. They, however had far less escort radius for high altitude penetrations as they had much less internal fuel than the F4U-1
The F4U-5 should always out turn and out roll a P-51H through ~ 22000 feet based on the relative wing loadings and the P-51H standard rigging of 10 degrees aileron throw.
By comparison, as escort fighters the F4U-1 was fine for P-47D escort ranges at medium altitudes and the F4U--4&-5 was better at higher altitudes with 2 stage-2 speed superchargers. They, however had far less escort radius for high altitude penetrations as they had much less internal fuel than the F4U-1
wuzak
Captain
The F4U-1 had a two stage supercharger as well. The F4U-4 had an improved version and the F4U-5 had the R-2800-42W with the enormous "sidewinder" auxiliary superchargers.
drgondog
Major
Wuzak, agreed. The context of my remark was that the R-2800 engines for the two top USN fighters were not geared for peak performance near AAF doctrine strategic bomber altitudes
I didn't mean to infer that the F4U-1 and 1A (or F6F-3 -10/-10W) did not have 2 speed/2 stage. The -8 and -8W both peaked in delivered power around 15,000 and IIRC the best cruise performance, and SOP, was approximately 15,000 feet.
Shortround6
Major General
The Corsair used 3 different engines. The F4U-1s had the "B" series R-2800. The F4U-4 introduced the "C" series engine and the F4U-5 got the "E" series engine. ALL had two stage superchargers. However the basic engines (crankshaft/crankcase/, cylinders, rods, pistons, etc) differed so much that the parts were most definitely NOT interchangeable between them.
The -5 was close enough in speed to the P-51H that speed alone would not be determining factor in combat.
Of course the -5 was also several years later in timing than the P-51H. P-51H was in squadron service before the F4U-5 prototype flew.
The -4 Corsair had considerably improved high altitude performance over the -1s but it too was bit late. First examples don't reach combat zones until April/May of 1945 and they do have a range problem due to internal fuel compared to the Mustang (not to mention drag, the F4U was big airplane).
The -5 was close enough in speed to the P-51H that speed alone would not be determining factor in combat.
Of course the -5 was also several years later in timing than the P-51H. P-51H was in squadron service before the F4U-5 prototype flew.
The -4 Corsair had considerably improved high altitude performance over the -1s but it too was bit late. First examples don't reach combat zones until April/May of 1945 and they do have a range problem due to internal fuel compared to the Mustang (not to mention drag, the F4U was big airplane).
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bobbysocks
Chief Master Sergeant
the H got deployed to the pacific but didn't see much if any action. why did they go back to the D model in Korea??
airminded88
Airman 1st Class
Bill, did you father and other pilots have the choice to stick with the P-51 B or did they have to move on with the D conversion?
wuzak
Captain
The numbers available?
GregP
Major
There were a LOT more P-51Ds available and there was no reason to keep a logistics chain going for two variants when one would do. We had a lot of spares for them, too. Neither the P-51D nor the F4U could hope to really fight a MiG-15, which they didn't know about or realize was going to be a player before it showed up. They figured it would be fighting against Yaks, Lavochkins, and other Soviet piston aircraft.
Nobody figured the Soviets had a good jet fighter, or even if they knew, never thought it would be deployed to Korea.
Similar with the Corsair. The Navy had quite a few newer Corsairs and no reason to keep Hellcats flying much longer after WWII was over. It was NOT that the Hellcats could not have been good, but we had WAY more airplanes than a peacetime armed forces could use, and they decided on the aircraft they would keep around ... and retired / scrapped the others.
When you go from the WWII armed forces size to the peacetime armed forces a few years later, they had aircraft, tanks, artillery, etc. out the yeng-yeng and nobody to run or maintain them because most people who did that had been discharged back into civilian life. Remember they recalled many aviators back into service for Korea, including baseball players like Ted Williams.
Nobody figured the Soviets had a good jet fighter, or even if they knew, never thought it would be deployed to Korea.
Similar with the Corsair. The Navy had quite a few newer Corsairs and no reason to keep Hellcats flying much longer after WWII was over. It was NOT that the Hellcats could not have been good, but we had WAY more airplanes than a peacetime armed forces could use, and they decided on the aircraft they would keep around ... and retired / scrapped the others.
When you go from the WWII armed forces size to the peacetime armed forces a few years later, they had aircraft, tanks, artillery, etc. out the yeng-yeng and nobody to run or maintain them because most people who did that had been discharged back into civilian life. Remember they recalled many aviators back into service for Korea, including baseball players like Ted Williams.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Only 555 P-51H models were built by V-J Day along with one P-51M
All the orders were cancelled with the end of the war, so there were simply not enough P-51H aircraft to justify swapping out the P-51Ds (and P-51Ks) currently in service.
All the orders were cancelled with the end of the war, so there were simply not enough P-51H aircraft to justify swapping out the P-51Ds (and P-51Ks) currently in service.
drgondog
Major
Two notes. The P-51H did not deploy offshore during WWII or Korea. The 51D/K were deployed to National Guard units beginning in 1946 but the P-51/P-82 had a niche for SAC and Air Defense Command that was unfulfilled by jet aircraft because of combined range/performance issues - and the H didn't go to the Guard beginning in 1951.
Net, USAF deemed P-51D 'good enough to better' in comparison to P-51H for TAC mission.
Net, USAF deemed P-51D 'good enough to better' in comparison to P-51H for TAC mission.
drgondog
Major
Yes, he had opportunity to do what he wanted. He was squadron Ops, then 354CO when the P-51D-5s dribbled in.
He loved the slight agility advantage that B/C with Malcolm Hood had over the D but thought the firepower and visibility advantage out weighed 'the feel'. I know a lot of Mustang drivers from WWII. I do not know, nor have I heard of any save one that didn't jump at the chance to swap.
That was Don Beerbower, 354FG. He could have gotten a P-51D in late May but soldiered on in 43-12375 Bonnie B II. IIRC he was KIA in that P-51B-1-NA on 8 August. He felt that the Bonnie B II was the fastest Mustang in the ETO and was satisfied with 4x50's plus Malcolm Hood.
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GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Bill, do you suppose that Don's decision to keep his "B" is what caused his demise?
I know that my Uncle had expressed on many occasions that he wished he could have kept his P-36 and preferred it even over his P-38. Of course, the Army wasn't as nostalgic and had other ideas.
drgondog
Major
Bill, do you suppose that Don's decision to keep his "B" is what caused his demise?
I know that my Uncle had expressed on many occasions that he wished he could have kept his P-36 and preferred it even over his P-38. Of course, the Army wasn't as nostalgic and had other ideas.
Beerbower was KIA strafing an airfield and I suspect being in a D would not have saved him....
airminded88
Airman 1st Class
Thanks Bill.
It seems that England-based AAF fighter groups did not have issues towards maintaining fighters of different variants through a prolonged period of time.
Kudos to all those guys keeping those birds ready to fight the LW and protect the big friends
It seems that England-based AAF fighter groups did not have issues towards maintaining fighters of different variants through a prolonged period of time.
Kudos to all those guys keeping those birds ready to fight the LW and protect the big friends
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davparlr
Senior Master Sergeant
Probably power. At 25k the P-47D-25 had about 900 more hp than the Mustang whereas at 15k the P-47 only had a 500 hp edge. As altitude went up power advantage also went up thanks to the flat rated R-2800 with turbo.
drgondog
Major
Definitely power (converted to Thrust). The 51 drag advantage was gradually overcome by the Delta of Power Available vs Power Required. The 51 was always far superior over both the P-47 and p-38 (and Spitfire and Tempest and Bf 109 and FW 190) wrt Parasite Drag, so the Thrust HP as a function of altitude was critical.
The P-47 was also MUCH heavier, so maybe the extra HP still wasn't enough...
drgondog
Major
Two factors. Mass was important factor for acceleration from same steady velocity. Sustaining the acceleration bought Drag into play
