Friendly fire incidents

manta22 · Jul 18, 2023

When I was in Germany in the early'60s, there was an accident at Graffenwoehr where artillery went long, into troops waiting in a bivouac area. The officer was supposed to count the powder bags strung together when they were held up for confirmation but he miscounted or failed to do so. A number of men were killed in that incident.

Capt. Vick · Jul 18, 2023

In the book, "We Were Soldiers Once ... and Young: Ia Drang - the Battle That Changed the War in Vietnam" it's recounted at the end of the book how a bunch of soldiers were killed while supposedly safely bivouac back at base by either US artillery or bombs, can't remember. Imagine surviving that only to get it somewhere supposedly safe by your own side?

EwenS · Jul 19, 2023

On 24 & 25 July 1944 heavy bombers accidentally dropped bombs on the front lines of US First Army in the opening moves in Operation Cobra, the breakout from Normandy. That resulted in over 750 dead and wounded US personnel. That included the death of Lt Gen Lesley McNair, the highest ranked US casualty in the ETO.

Wiki has an interesting article detailing friendly fire incidents starting with the War of the Roses in England in 1471 to the War in Ukraine in 2023.

List of friendly fire incidents - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

It is frightening just how often it happens, even in the modern era with vastly improved communications allowing combatants to identify themselves.

Shinpachi · Jul 19, 2023

On February 17, 1942, 30+ IJN airborne planes (L3Y = G3M transport version) were heading for Manado, Celebes to occupy the airfield. At altitude 300 meters near Manado, they cofirmed 6 F1M Pete escorting them at altitude 4,000 meters.
However, two of them suddenly dived and attacked the formation and two had been shot down.
The attackers testified later "Their camouflage looked enemy planes."

Official report tells one lost by friendly fire on January 11.

Maxrobot1 · Jul 21, 2023

In John Toland's 1971 book, "Battle of the Bulge," He mentions that the town of Malmedy (site of the German massacre of U.S. prisoners) was recaptured early on from the Germans and then, when U.S. troops re-occupied it, the town was bombed by friendly B-26 bombers of the U.S. 9th Air Force – three days in a row!
In Avid Irving's 1963 book, "The Destruction of Dresden," he discusses one whole U.S. Bomb group bombed the wrong city. (They mistakenly bombed Prague, Czechoslovakia)

WARSPITER · Jul 22, 2023

Operation Viking was a mess as well. The Luftwaffe and Kreigsmarine were sent to the area of Dogger Bank to hit British trawlers.
End result - two Z class destroyers sunk by Luftwaffe attacks and one damaged. No losses to the enemy.

Thumpalumpacus · Jul 22, 2023

Oh, if we're talking naval as well, look at the Bar-room Brawl of 13 Nov 42. Numerous American ships shot at each other, and a shell from USS San Francisco killed Rear Adm Norman Scott aboard USS Atlanta, among others.

I don't know if the Japanese side was just as sloppy, but it was Charlie Foxtrot for the Americans.

WARSPITER · Jul 23, 2023

Data collated from known sources gives a level of anything from two to twenty percent losses via friendly
fire - not just in WWII.

tyrodtom · Jul 23, 2023

It was a problem in WW1 too.
On May 8th 1918 Adj. Renault flying a Spad 7, was , shot down by Lt. Blaxland a Australian ace with 9 victories, flying a SE5.
The RAF said the Spad was mistaken for a Albatross because both aircraft had no dihedral, and the Spad's camouflage looked "Hunnish"
Blaxland was reassigned as a training instructor, Renault died.
It was somewhat of a scandal because the RAF people involved didn't report the incident, Blaxland's CO was reassigned back to Australia within a few days also.
I got this from the vol 16, no 3, 2001 of Over the Front, it mentions some other friendly fire incidents .

462SQN RAAF · Jul 24, 2023

I have a mate in Germany, lives near Augsburg, he's taken me to a few crash sites around there. I remember us driving one day and he pointed to a ridge line and said two P-61's were shot down there by US AAA. I think they were returning from an Op together.

Maxrobot1 said:
In Martin Caidin's book on the P-38, he says a priority delivery of dive brakes for Lightnings was attempted by a C-54 only to have the plane shot down by a Spitfire. I think the first European loss of a P-61 was to a Mosquito and I recently saw that the first Hurricanes shot down in the Battle of France were downed by Spitfires.
anybody have any other such anecdotes?

GrauGeist · Jul 24, 2023

Then there was the IJN Mogami which fired a spread of six torpedoes at Allied ships during the battle of Sunda Straight.

Her spread struck and sank five ships, which were the IJA Ryujo Maru, IJA Sakura Maru, IJA Tatsuno Maru, IJA Horai Maru and IJN W-2.

IJA Lt. Gen. Hitsohi Imamura, who's ship had just been sunk, was not amused...

SaparotRob · Jul 25, 2023

Well, those were IJA ships.

GrauGeist · Jul 25, 2023

SaparotRob said:
Well, those were IJA ships.

True, but I don't think that even with the IJN/IJA rivalry, that was supposed to happen.

To Mogami's credit, she did accurately lay down a lethal spread of torpedoes. The downside to this, was desperately needed men and material of the Japanese Army was sent to the bottom.

Sadly, Mogami never got an award or even an honorable mention from the USN for a job well done.

MikeMeech · Jul 25, 2023

Hi

No. 416 (RCAF) Squadron flying Spitfire XVIs had a bad experience with "Friendly Fire" on 24th December 1944, when US Army AA fire at MALMEDY opened fire on their formation, shooting down two and causing three others to crash land. One pilot, F/O J R Beasley being killed.
The following day another 416 Squadron patrol near MALMEDY lost another Spitfire XVI to "Friendly Fire" this time to a USAAF P-47, the pilot F/O A G Borland being killed. On the same day No. 439 Squadron flying Typhoons were also attacked by the USAAF this time P-51s, however, they avoided getting damaged (out flew the P-51s?).
On a wider perspective the 2nd TAF had become very concerned towards the end of 1944 about attacks by 'friendly' aircraft in the battle zone, apparently the main perpetrators being fighters of the US Eighth Air Force returning from escort mission. This is when a white circle between the red and blue circles on the upper wing roundels was added later a yellow circle outside the blue circle was also applied.
Sources:
'2nd Tactical Air Force' Volumes Two and Four, by Shores and Thomas.
'Fighter Command Losses of the Second World War' Volume 3, by Norman Franks.
'Fighter Command War Diaries Part 5, July 1944 to May 1945' by John Foreman.

Mike

GrauGeist · Jul 25, 2023

The story of Lt. Curdes and his downing of an American transport in the PTO is proof that fact can be stranger than fiction.

BarnOwlLover · Jul 25, 2023

And he got a medal for it, since his "friendly fire" saved the crew of the C-47 he forced down from becoming IJA prisoners of war.

GrauGeist · Jul 25, 2023

BarnOwlLover said:
And he got a medal for it, since his "friendly fire" saved the crew of the C-47 he forced down from becoming IJA prisoners of war.

And a Wife, too!

BarnOwlLover · Jul 25, 2023

And he apparently went on a date with her a night or two before the incident.

MikeMeech · Jul 25, 2023

MikeMeech said:
Hi

No. 416 (RCAF) Squadron flying Spitfire XVIs had a bad experience with "Friendly Fire" on 24th December 1944, when US Army AA fire at MALMEDY opened fire on their formation, shooting down two and causing three others to crash land. One pilot, F/O J R Beasley being killed.
The following day another 416 Squadron patrol near MALMEDY lost another Spitfire XVI to "Friendly Fire" this time to a USAAF P-47, the pilot F/O A G Borland being killed. On the same day No. 439 Squadron flying Typhoons were also attacked by the USAAF this time P-51s, however, they avoided getting damaged (out flew the P-51s?).
On a wider perspective the 2nd TAF had become very concerned towards the end of 1944 about attacks by 'friendly' aircraft in the battle zone, apparently the main perpetrators being fighters of the US Eighth Air Force returning from escort mission. This is when a white circle between the red and blue circles on the upper wing roundels was added later a yellow circle outside the blue circle was also applied.
Sources:
'2nd Tactical Air Force' Volumes Two and Four, by Shores and Thomas.
'Fighter Command Losses of the Second World War' Volume 3, by Norman Franks.
'Fighter Command War Diaries Part 5, July 1944 to May 1945' by John Foreman.

Mike

Hi
I should also have mentioned that on the 24th December No.439 (RCAF) Squadron also lost a Typhoon to a US P-47, the pilot F/Sgt W A Wright being killed.

Mike

Shinpachi · Jul 25, 2023

GrauGeist said:
Then there was the IJN Mogami which fired a spread of six torpedoes at Allied ships during the battle of Sunda Straight.

Her spread struck and sank five ships, which were the IJA Ryujo Maru, IJA Sakura Maru, IJA Tatsuno Maru, IJA Horai Maru and IJN W-2.

IJA Lt. Gen. Hitsohi Imamura, who's ship had just been sunk, was not amused...

Interesting topic, Dave.
As far as I have checked, IJN Mogami and her fellow ships sank not only these IJA ships but USS Houston and HMAS Perth on the day.
Admiral Yamamoto later awarded Mogami for her contribution on this part.

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