GB-55 1/48 B-25D-1 Mitchell - MTO III

Crimea_River said:

To answer your questions Yves, there is no indication of a future radio operator's window position on this B model moulding. I will scale the location and size form your photo. Strange that the window is not on my clear sprue but the astrodome is.

Click to expand...

I think AM mixed some of the parts for their family of models - on the clear sprue there are obviously parts for later models (not B) as you say, but some more have been added later probably. The window in question is on my sprue with the big square window for the navigator's compartment (on the very left side in your picture of the parts). I'll measure it and give you the exact size as per the model. I'm sure I have a drawing which I put in CAD and can measure from there, but the original part is kinda easier to use. I'll do it tomorrow.
Cheers!

Thanks Yves, you're being very kind my friend. I'm going to list here all of the differences between the B and the C/D I noted in comparing the instructions in case you were going to do all this. I'd hate to see you waste your time on something I've already done.

B Step 1 - No differences but add the crew armour to seats.
B Step 2 - No differences. The long range fuel tank was definitely used on the Doolittle B's and is listed as an option for the C/D. I will probably omit it for DGFB.
B Step 3 - No differences but the turret mods you sent in the attachment in post 10 are noted.
B Step 4 - No differences but the lower turret was definitely omitted from the Doolittle machines and the C/D instructions say it's probable that it was removed on the C/D in many cases as well due to its effect on the gunner and for weight saving. Need to confirm if carried on DGFB but may not be possible to do so.
B Step 5 - No differences except as follows: Add the radio operator's window discussed above. Part K54, the camera compartment, is called up in both instructions but if that's what this is then there are no glazed lens openings provided on the underside of the fuselage. Need to look into this. The Navigator's window on DGFB appears to be bulged and so I would replace flat glass H103 with the G129 bulged one for the C/D. Fortunately this has been included on the clear sprue in my kit.
B Step 6 - Same comments as for Step 5 except there is no extra window needed on the port side
B Step 7 - This is Step 8 in the C/D instructions as Step 7 covers another version for the nose. The changes needed here are already well documented above.
B Step 8 (C/D Step 9) - No differences
B Step 9 (C/D Step 10) - No differences
B Step 10 (C/D Step 11) - No differences except that the C/D instructions note that some machines carried field-installed blast shields fore and aft of the upper turret. Looking at the pic of DGFB, it appears these might be present so I will need to add if so.
B Step 11 (C/D Step 12) - No differences except use domed window over Nav position instead of flat panel H105. Oversized dome included in kit is noted. Also noted is the recommendation above to modify clear part H107 rather than use one of the two other canopies included.
B Step 12 (C/D Step 13) - No differences but use clear part F172 in lieu of tail gun for DGFB.
B Step 13 (C/D Step 14) - No differences except as follows: Parts A87 the oil cooler outlet fairings are not called up on the C/D instructions but a close look at the pic of DGFB shows these are present on the starboard wing so I will install them. The C/D version has wing bomb racks parts B112 and B113 but I don't have these. As noted above DGFB likely had these so I will need to find or make a set.
B Step 14 (C/D Step 15) - Major changes are needed to accommodate flame dampers and wider carb intakes as discussed earlier.
B Steps 15 thru 17 inclusive - all same as for C/D
B Step 18 (C/D Step 19) - No differences except that the tail skid A86 would be replaced by a bumper, part B151 in the C/D kit.
B Step 19 (C/D Step 20) - No differences except location of double venturi part K59 needs to be moved forward for DGFB per the pic.

Andy, you did the most amazing job I've ever imagined with those modification steps! I tried to do the same for a heavily modified MTO-Mitchell for a different model (the old Revell 1:48; you built it in the forum some time ago), but the changes were so many, that I eventually gave up and left only single notes in a big cardboard box. I've used those when writing my earlier posts, but could never produce a "building manual" like yours! Kudos for you!
I'll elaborate on some of your points below, because they gave me the idea that not everything one doesn't see must be as one wants to see.

First of all here's the drawing for the side oval window as measured from my Academy a.k.a. AM-clone kit:

The shaded area is the step with which the transparent part has to attach from the inside to the fuselage. The clear opening is 7.24 x 3.44.
All sizes are in millimeters.
Attached is a pdf-copy as well.
1. Step 2 - long range tank: those were used on MTO "Mitchells" for the long flight from the USA, but in the theater AFAIK only for a few special missions and never as standard.
2. Step 4 - this is a very interesting point! I always assumed that DGFB was not modified in the way many of the MTO B-25 were. The missing waist windows with 0.50 guns resp. tail gun in some form was telling me that the belly turret was not deleted on this a/c. Similar to the one I posted earlier (6A from 486-th BS.). Looking at the photo of DGFB, one doesn't see any belly turret - that's for sure. It's hard to find another a/c with this turret and in the exact same position for comparison. The fuselage contour cannot cover the whole turret from this point of view, but could it be behind the nacelle? I don't think so. The vertical axis of the belly turret was in line with the center of the circular window (one of the schemes I posted shows it). It is not possible that the nacelle will cover 100% of the turret.


So you actually found it! A very strange mod without the typical additions, but with no turret. This reminds me of only one "Mitchell" from the 12-th BG. I've seen where the belly turret was deleted and handheld guns have been added.

Could DGFB be like this?
3. Step 5 - the parts provided K49 and K54 are from the camera compartment but not the camera mountings per se. This is how the camera support looks like:

Not all a/c had the camera mounted at any given time. I read some good memoirs of a photographer in the MTO with the 488th BS./340th BG. and he was the single photographer in the squadron during a mission. Sometimes he was even the single one for the whole group or formation.
You don't have a camera IMHO.
4. Step 10/11 - the blast shields for the upper and lower turret were factory installed for the C-1/D-1 models (and even earlier for some of the C/D, no block number). Do not forget to add the blast shields for the belly turret even if the turret is not there, this a/c was manufactured with the turret as standard.
5. Step 13 - the oil cooler exhaust fairing (a.k.a. Scavenging scoop for r.h. oil cooler duct outlet as per a nice instruction Paul posted earlier somewhere in the forum) was a standard part on C/D/G models. Some of them were deleted as a field mod, but not with this a/c.
That's all.
Cheers!

Crimea_River and CATCH 22 you guys amaze me. Woow... the level of detail is boggling my mind. And loving it. Keep on doing that please

Many thanks once again Yves. That window dimension sketch will be put to good use for sure.

I agree that if the lower turret was deployed in the sole picture of DGFB then at least part of it would be visible so I'm inclined to leave it off and use the plug supplied in the kit. The single replacement gun is interesting but not something I'm prepared to add without proof of it's existence as this would open yet more questions about a window and what t do with the lower turret framing which, in the kit, also supports the upper turret.

Thanks for the info on the camera. Sounds like my machine probably didn't carry cameras but my question had to do more with the provision of openings in the fuselage under the camera racks. If design provision was made for cameras then would there not have been glazed openings for the cameras to shoot through even if they weren't mounted?

At present, I'm investigating the seats. I don't like the mould quality of the seats in the kit and, since I need to add armour plating anyway, I'm looking at maybe modifying the kit parts. It seems that there are two styles of seat possible. One is shown here (B25 Mitchell Seats) :



The type that the kit seems to want to represent is shown here ((SOLD) B-25 pilots seat):



The last one has a flared bucket whereas the first one seems to have straight sides. Anyone know which is correct?

Another question regarding the photos above. What are the circled items in the port nose glazing?

Crimea_River said:

Another question regarding the photos above. What are the circled items in the port nose glazing?

View attachment 680681View attachment 680682

Click to expand...

That's the opening mechanism for the escape hatch. There are 2 horizontal frames on the inside only - we discussed this detail for a B-25J in one of the previous GB.

Crimea_River said:

Thanks for the info on the camera. Sounds like my machine probably didn't carry cameras but my question had to do more with the provision of openings in the fuselage under the camera racks. If design provision was made for cameras then would there not have been glazed openings for the cameras to shoot through even if they weren't mounted?

Click to expand...

No, there was no glazed opening in the floor. There was a circular opening (as seen in the picture posted) with a cover, which was closed and opened by hand from inside and stowed on one side when vertical photos have been made. Here is another photo of the compartment where this cover is shown just on the side of the seat/toilet.

As shown in the photo there is a double floor - the fuselage to the outside and the real walking floor. The camera door/cover closes the exterior opening only.
It's hard to find a good picture with high resolution showing the tail of the plane from below. I remember I've seen a good one before, but don't know where?
After a good 1 hour search I found it (in a book):

Behind the exit hatch there is a circular cover - this is the camera opening. I don't know what does the small circle after the big one represent.
Please note this is a modified PBJ-1D in the Kansas modification centre. The lower turret is already deleted and the cover of the opening is not as per AM-model - the gun slots are not covered. Some of the field mods were exactly like this one. I've seen rectangular/square covers too.
Cheers!
P.S. And here is the camera hatch from below. Judging by the "Push to open hatch" label (it's for the exit hatch, not for the camera hatch), the nose of the a/c is to the top and the tail to the bottom of this photo.

Crimea_River said:

The last one has a flared bucket whereas the first one seems to have straight sides. Anyone know which is correct?

Click to expand...

Andy, check this movie:
The a/c they are testing is a B-25C-15, a mid production C.
You can check for many details there incl. seats. It was always my understanding that the simplified seats are late production (J and H). The "nicer" ones are the initial type.

This is IMHO, have no written proof for it at the moment, only photos.
Cheers!

Hey Andy, you're probably busy packing your case right now ready for the off come the morning. So have a safe and pleasant trip my friend, enjoy the Emerald Isle and raise a galss of that black stuff to us less fortunate still sitting at home.

Thanks for clarifying the camera opening CATCH 22 Yves. So it seems I will need to scribe a circular cover, which is not depicted right now on the underside. Maybe the smaller cover behind it is to clean out the toilet? (not my job)

My apologies for not noticing the the latch for the nose hatch. This is indeed moulded into the clear part but I hadn't noticed it.

Nice training video and indeed good for some details that I will add to the pit as the area is clearly seen through the canopy.

Vic Balshaw said:

Hey Andy, you're probably busy packing your case right now ready for the off come the morning. So have a safe and pleasant trip my friend, enjoy the Emerald Isle and raise a galss of that black stuff to us less fortunate still sitting at home.

Click to expand...

Actually all packed now Vic except for the stuff I still need to look and smell pretty. The flight leaves tomorrow evening, as do most flights to Europe form these parts, so you guys will have to suffer my presence for a bit longer. Thanks so much for the good wishes and I'll be sure to post a pic of Evan, Gerry, and me hoisting a local brew.

Great Thread! Man those versions of the B-25 had a ton of windows. Thankfully the B-25J I did in the heavy hitters build didn't have them. Getting the nose glazing to look respectable was a challenge.

Amazing stuff....

Hope to do this model justice with all the great inputs. Just to kick this off and get a few pics off my phone, I give you:

The control columns with the various levers on the console. The latter will be cut off and new ones scratched:



Looking at the pic now, it seems the control columns are too close together as well.

Here's the cockpit floor, bulkhead and tunnel glued together. Two ejector pin marks have been filled with a few white marks showing pits that still need to be redone. The flap and undercarriage levers will also be removed and redone.



So that's how she'll sit for a couple of weeks until I get back from vacay. See you then.

Stay safe and enjoy.

This is going to be great! I love the aircrafts name

Nice work so far Andy!

A bit of a background information, not just modellers' stuff!
I was reading recently war diaries and mission reports from the 321st BG. in the MTO (flying B-25 of course!) and came across the following interesting note (the author describes the events around the time when the 321-st BG. moved from Souk el Arba to Cape Bon peninsula, not far from the capital of Tunisia Tunis. A very nice place, which I was lucky to visit 25 years ago):

If you check my earlier post , you'll find the Stars and Stripes excerpt with the song about Dirty Gertie, called a "MYTHICAL CHARACTER" by someone who was there.

Happy trails Andy. Bring me back something expensive...size large

fubar57 said:

Happy trails Andy. Bring me back something expensive...size large

Click to expand...

I was thinking of a grader but you already have one.

CATCH 22 thanks for the reference. When I was googling the plane I came across a one with the name DGFB but it was a B-24 IIRC. Will see if I can find it again.