Great attention to detail Andy
GB-67 1/48 Mosquito P.R. Mk. XVI - Twin Engine in WWII
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Vic Balshaw
Major General
My mind is agog! 
Lovely work so far Andy!
- Thread starter
- #84
Crimea_River
Marshal
Thanks all.
I've been trying to narrow down a scheme to use on my model while retaining the yellow spinners and the red and white stripes on the tail as shown in the photo on page 1. In doing so , I've come across A LOT of conflicting information. First of all, there really aren't a lot of pics on the net of aircraft with these red and white stripes. The few that do exist mostly come from references I already have but some are unique. The photos and references often confuse these aircraft as belonging to 60 Sqn SAAF or 680 Sqn RAF and there is also differing information as to whether or not the yellow vs red spinners seen in colour pics were used to distinguish aircraft between the two squadrons, which used the same base for a time at Foggia and which did not display squadron codes, or whether the different spinners distinguished aircraft of different flights within the same squadron. At any rate, I want to make my subject one that can be supported by photographs showing enough detail to support the choice of code letter, spinner colour, and serial number. It came down to the following choices.
The first and most likely is aircraft K, serial NS674 shown on page 1 of this thread:
The "K" and serial are clearly shown and the light coloured spinner suggests that it is yellow. This scheme is also used by Airfix in their 1/72 scale PR XVI kit.
The second candidate that I liked is shown in the below profile, aircraft H, serial NS851:
I have decals for the H as well as a complete serial "NS850" from my Aviaelogy set. that could easily be modified to make NS851. But wait a sec. That decal set was for some RCAF FB VIs so if NS850 is an FB VI, then what is NS851? Turns out that NS851 is also an FB VI, not a PR XVI. Now there are discussions of 60 Sqn SAAF flying FB VIs painted in PRU blue and the only apparent photos I have of this bird are here, from the Squadron/Signal In Action publication:
In the above pic, H is behind G and the serial can't be made out. It also looks as though it has the observer's dome window, which the FB VI would not have had, unless it was modified.
The other pic is here (H is only partly visible at left, serials illegible):
The same photo in colour linked from the net:
In either case, I can't make out the serial and if it truly is NS851 then it rules it out for me since I'm doing a PR XVI.
The other subject I warmed up to was this one for which two shots seem to have been taken in quick succession. The first is linked from the web:
Closely followed by this one from Osprey's Combat Aircraft 013, in which the s/n is quoted as NS644:
I like this one because of the odd fuselage roundel - until I saw that a pic of G captioned with the same s/n shows up in the Squadron Signal publication. The pic upthread of G in the foreground shows the same crooked invasion stripes as above, the same "G", and yet the fuselage roundel does not have the white separation between the blue and red (orange?). So is one of these publications stating the wrong s/n? Are these two different G's? Probably not, given the same crooked stripes. Maybe the odd roundel reflects that the SAAF maybe repainted this one with orange centers to replace the red after the other pic was taken - something I didn't know that they did until doing this research. This one remains intriguing.
Finally there is this excellent shot of RG129, again linked from the web:
This one was a late delivery to 60 Sqn SAAF on Aug 9, 1945 so the pic was probably taken post war. Interestingly, it retained the red and white recognition stripes with, I would hope, the risk of friendly shootdowns being gone by then. Technically, this one might be considered outside the scope of the GB with the war in Europe over.
Any thoughts or further info on the above musings would be welcome. Can anyone confirm the serial for G from the above pics or elsewhere? What about the orange roundel centers? Applied or not? When?
I've been trying to narrow down a scheme to use on my model while retaining the yellow spinners and the red and white stripes on the tail as shown in the photo on page 1. In doing so , I've come across A LOT of conflicting information. First of all, there really aren't a lot of pics on the net of aircraft with these red and white stripes. The few that do exist mostly come from references I already have but some are unique. The photos and references often confuse these aircraft as belonging to 60 Sqn SAAF or 680 Sqn RAF and there is also differing information as to whether or not the yellow vs red spinners seen in colour pics were used to distinguish aircraft between the two squadrons, which used the same base for a time at Foggia and which did not display squadron codes, or whether the different spinners distinguished aircraft of different flights within the same squadron. At any rate, I want to make my subject one that can be supported by photographs showing enough detail to support the choice of code letter, spinner colour, and serial number. It came down to the following choices.
The first and most likely is aircraft K, serial NS674 shown on page 1 of this thread:
The "K" and serial are clearly shown and the light coloured spinner suggests that it is yellow. This scheme is also used by Airfix in their 1/72 scale PR XVI kit.
The second candidate that I liked is shown in the below profile, aircraft H, serial NS851:
I have decals for the H as well as a complete serial "NS850" from my Aviaelogy set. that could easily be modified to make NS851. But wait a sec. That decal set was for some RCAF FB VIs so if NS850 is an FB VI, then what is NS851? Turns out that NS851 is also an FB VI, not a PR XVI. Now there are discussions of 60 Sqn SAAF flying FB VIs painted in PRU blue and the only apparent photos I have of this bird are here, from the Squadron/Signal In Action publication:
In the above pic, H is behind G and the serial can't be made out. It also looks as though it has the observer's dome window, which the FB VI would not have had, unless it was modified.
The other pic is here (H is only partly visible at left, serials illegible):
The same photo in colour linked from the net:
In either case, I can't make out the serial and if it truly is NS851 then it rules it out for me since I'm doing a PR XVI.
The other subject I warmed up to was this one for which two shots seem to have been taken in quick succession. The first is linked from the web:
Closely followed by this one from Osprey's Combat Aircraft 013, in which the s/n is quoted as NS644:
I like this one because of the odd fuselage roundel - until I saw that a pic of G captioned with the same s/n shows up in the Squadron Signal publication. The pic upthread of G in the foreground shows the same crooked invasion stripes as above, the same "G", and yet the fuselage roundel does not have the white separation between the blue and red (orange?). So is one of these publications stating the wrong s/n? Are these two different G's? Probably not, given the same crooked stripes. Maybe the odd roundel reflects that the SAAF maybe repainted this one with orange centers to replace the red after the other pic was taken - something I didn't know that they did until doing this research. This one remains intriguing.
Finally there is this excellent shot of RG129, again linked from the web:
This one was a late delivery to 60 Sqn SAAF on Aug 9, 1945 so the pic was probably taken post war. Interestingly, it retained the red and white recognition stripes with, I would hope, the risk of friendly shootdowns being gone by then. Technically, this one might be considered outside the scope of the GB with the war in Europe over.
Any thoughts or further info on the above musings would be welcome. Can anyone confirm the serial for G from the above pics or elsewhere? What about the orange roundel centers? Applied or not? When?
Last edited by a moderator:
Donivanp
Lieutenant Colonel
Decisions, decisions, decisions! Enie menie minie mo!!!!!! Lots to iron out there.
Few to choose from.......you'll nail a good choice..
- Thread starter
- #87
Crimea_River
Marshal
One pic doesn't show in my long post above. I tried to edit it, inserting a link to the photo. I can see the pic while editing the thread but not when I save it:
Oh well.....
I did a little work in the cockpit with base paint slapped on and radios painted and fitted. The presence of the mast in all the above photos and manual references confirm that the radio fit out was the T1154/R1155 system which happily is supplied with kit. In reading about 60 Squadron's operations, the use of this system might have indirectly led to the adoption of the red recognition stripes on the tail, given that American fighters operating in the same area were fitted with VHF sets and were incommunicado with the British and SAAF units.
I had to move the transmitter as it would have been situated too far forward, leaving no room for the D/F loop and the fold-down Observer's armour plate. I thought I took a picture of the kit set up but didn't so I only have the below pic showing the transmitter moved back and the locating slot hidden with a piece of thin styrene card.
I'll add the latter and a few other things that will be visible through the canopy in the next steps and will report back then. Thanks for looking.
Oh well.....
I did a little work in the cockpit with base paint slapped on and radios painted and fitted. The presence of the mast in all the above photos and manual references confirm that the radio fit out was the T1154/R1155 system which happily is supplied with kit. In reading about 60 Squadron's operations, the use of this system might have indirectly led to the adoption of the red recognition stripes on the tail, given that American fighters operating in the same area were fitted with VHF sets and were incommunicado with the British and SAAF units.
I had to move the transmitter as it would have been situated too far forward, leaving no room for the D/F loop and the fold-down Observer's armour plate. I thought I took a picture of the kit set up but didn't so I only have the below pic showing the transmitter moved back and the locating slot hidden with a piece of thin styrene card.
I'll add the latter and a few other things that will be visible through the canopy in the next steps and will report back then. Thanks for looking.
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #89
Crimea_River
Marshal
Thank-you. I linked the pic from Large Scale Planes which in turn must have been linked from Imgur. I couldn't tell looking at it.
- Thread starter
- #91
Crimea_River
Marshal
Weird that it shows up in the Edit mode but not when the post is saved. Would be nice if it said somehow that the link is not supported before posting. The screen shot in post 87 was taken in Edit mode.
Just the object can't be embeded into your post because of the form of the link at the Imgur site. Not all sites allow to share their hosted content directly as the third party if you aren't the member. What is more a such object is only a virtual file but not the phisical one. For the reason the "img" procedure can't accept it as its operand. The final effect you know .. the icon with the red x. Therefore the uploading of a file onto our pic server is preffered to using of the hot links.
If you want to display a pic from the Imgur site you need to use the Share button and the last icon there ( Copy Link to Clipboard). Then you may paste it here without adding of the img tags.
As a result you can get this ...
View: https://imgur.com/MKvXTeO
or ... if you copy the direct address of the pic and paste .... but without the img tags.
View: https://i.imgur.com/MKvXTeO.jpeg
If you want to display a pic from the Imgur site you need to use the Share button and the last icon there ( Copy Link to Clipboard). Then you may paste it here without adding of the img tags.
As a result you can get this ...
View: https://imgur.com/MKvXTeO
or ... if you copy the direct address of the pic and paste .... but without the img tags.
View: https://i.imgur.com/MKvXTeO.jpeg
fubar57
General
Radios look nice
Nicely done so far Andy!
- Thread starter
- #95
Crimea_River
Marshal
Thanks guys. I'm bouncing around a bit here but moving forward. Before getting the cockpit installed I wanted to take care of the butchery on the fin. It's well documented that Tamiya's fin is a noticeable 4 scale inches too high and I'll post again the reference for this, supplemented by my red actual dimensions measured on our actual Mosquito:
Below at left can be seen the modified profile drawn onto the inside of the fin half. To the right is the other half with copious amounts of surface primer applied to tone down the very severe rib effect in Tamiya's moulding. It just ain't there on the real thing. Also the recess for the horn balance has been filled as it needs to be moved 2mm down.
A comparison of the revised profile laid onto the unmodified piece:
Lots more to do filling, sanding and adding details that will be lost. In other news, I scribed in the filler ports for the engine and intercooler tanks. Had a hard time finding pics for these but managed to find some of the inside of an actual cowl to locate them and get the shapes more or less correct. Hinges were added using stretched sprue but these will show up better once primer is applied.
I still need to add the vent fairing for the intercooler tank and need to find some pics to locate it properly. Thanks for looking in.
Below at left can be seen the modified profile drawn onto the inside of the fin half. To the right is the other half with copious amounts of surface primer applied to tone down the very severe rib effect in Tamiya's moulding. It just ain't there on the real thing. Also the recess for the horn balance has been filled as it needs to be moved 2mm down.
A comparison of the revised profile laid onto the unmodified piece:
Lots more to do filling, sanding and adding details that will be lost. In other news, I scribed in the filler ports for the engine and intercooler tanks. Had a hard time finding pics for these but managed to find some of the inside of an actual cowl to locate them and get the shapes more or less correct. Hinges were added using stretched sprue but these will show up better once primer is applied.
I still need to add the vent fairing for the intercooler tank and need to find some pics to locate it properly. Thanks for looking in.
Vic Balshaw
Major General
Nice work Andy, looks like your hard at it.
fubar57
General
Oh my. I never knew there were issues. Love your work
Donivanp
Lieutenant Colonel
Interesting information. I'd like to think Tamiya never made a mistake
- Thread starter
- #100
Crimea_River
Marshal
Thanks guys. Found the vent for the intercooler header tank. Top right corner of the filler cap and off center of the nacelle:
Ticked off the To Do List:
Ticked off the To Do List:
