German Aircraft Markings.

Discussion in 'Aircraft Markings and Camouflage' started by ccheese, Jan 5, 2009.

  1. ccheese

    ccheese Member In Perpetuity
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    I'm trying to understand the LW aircraft markings, mostly on the rear side of
    their aircraft. Red and blue bands around the fuselage. Yellow and red
    horizontal bars. Single and double chevrons, an S laying on it's side. What
    is all this ??

    I'm sure some of it denotes the squadrons, or what operational position the
    pilot has, or what "front" they were fighting on. Does anyone have a break-
    down, or can anyone recommend a book with the answers.

    Looking at some of the profiles Clave did recently of the FW-190, has
    got me wondering.

    Anyone with answers ???

    Charles
     
  2. Hesekiel

    Hesekiel Member

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  3. Amsel

    Amsel Active Member

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    Tail bands were added as part of the markings for aircraft on the Eastern Front and the Mediterranean. A white band round the aft fuselage was carried by aircraft in the Mediterranean and southern Russia; a white band was carried in central and northern Russia and Scandinavia. Often wing tips and cowling were painted in the same color. In mid 1944 a more complicated system of 'Reichsverteidigung' tail bands was introduced for fighter units.

    JG=093 : Single white band
    JG=094 : Black, white and black band
    JG=095 : Black and yellow band
    JG 11 : Yellow band
    JG 27 : Green band
    JG 51 : Green, white and green band
    JG 52 : Red and white band
    JG 53 : Black band
    JG 77 : White and Green band
    JG 300 : Blue, white and blue band.

    The ~ designated the III.Gruppe, which also used an l symbol. The II.Gruppe used an - symbol and the IV.Gruppe used an + symbol. The I.Gruppe used none.
     
  4. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    Charles, you posted a very interesting question which, hopefully, you have been able to find the answer to. However, as this area of camouflage and markings can be quite confusing, especially to those, including modellers, who are 'new' to the subject, I had thought of doing a set of simple charts, illustrating these codes, bands, bars and colours, in order to try and clarify at least part of the sometimes puzzling displays of LW markings. The reasoning behind the proposed project being to provide an 'at a glance' reference for those without access to more complete, and/or expensive reference works. If anyone thinks this might be useful, I'll get started on it, but it might take some time, as the 'system' became a little more complex as the war progressed.
    Terry.
     
  5. Catch22

    Catch22 Well-Known Member

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    I have uploaded my paper on the Luftwaffe, which explains the chevrons and bars. It doesn't explain the defence of the Reich bands, but it does give a good breakdown, I think anyway. I still am confused by it haha. Let me go find it!
     
  6. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    A short answer is these bands were indicators of The Third Reich defending Staffeln (squadrons).These black, white, yellow,red bars ( both vertical and horizontal ) and S laying on it's side identified Gruppe ( unit of three Staffeln)
    These single and double chevrons were markings of Staffeln and Gruppen commanders.These aircraft were in separate flights called Stab.
     
  7. Catch22

    Catch22 Well-Known Member

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    Here you go! Scroll down to page 26 to see what you're looking for. It seems to have muddled up my fonts for the side numbers and letters, but it should still make sense. If you want me to fix it, let me know!

    Looking at it, it completely makes the bomber part useless! I will fix it this week.
     

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  8. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    in truth none of you have it all right. Terry might as well go ahead and display what you are going to put together.

    fighter markings are different in some ways from bombers and different from recon and different from ..... ? on it goes. Defense bands were incorporated in 1943 as ID to distinguish them as Lw and not US fighters especially.
    Twin engine theater markings changed as the war progressed and Twin engine bomber killer markings and bands changed as we have already seen and read in the Tratt 410A-1/U2 thread. single engine NF's JG 300, 301 and 302 first had wide all red bands but that changed, JG 53 also had a red band before it was removed and alter repalced by black

    Terry go for it as I could run a full 2 pages in length of all the mind-boggling variations. one thing in the case of the rumpfband marking in 44 till wars end showing the black ~ this was meant for IVth gruppe not III.

    ok have at it
     
  9. Amsel

    Amsel Active Member

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    You are of course correct. My mistake and I apologize. I typed it in too fast.
     
  10. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    one of the problems is trying to make the goofy looking ~~ trying to tie it together. here is another goof marking as well : remember Bartels red 13 with =
    a rarely seen and short lived gruppe indicator.
     
  11. lesofprimus

    lesofprimus Active Member

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    I wonder if Micdrow has anything of value to this in the Technical Section?????

    If not, I think this would be an excellent project to get sone, with the resident experten Erich at the helm of corrections.....

    We can start with this as a beginning.....

    [​IMG]
     

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  12. ccheese

    ccheese Member In Perpetuity
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    My thanks to all who have contributed. Does anyone know of a book with
    this information in ? I downloaded that PDF file, Catch, and I understand
    some it it. Suppose you have a FW-190 with a red/yellow band around the
    fuselage, with a yellow horizontal bar thru the red/yellow band ? What does
    this mean ?

    Also what's the difference between a red two and a white one side number ?
    And then you get into colored spinners..... I'm lost...

    That's a nice chart, Dan. Where'd you get it ??

    Charles
     
  13. Junkers88A1

    Junkers88A1 Active Member

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    two great BIG books are the

    Luftwaffe camouflage and markings 1933-1945

    volume 1 and volume 2

    by K.A Merrick

    ISBN 1-903223-39-3
     
  14. Junkers88A1

    Junkers88A1 Active Member

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    one is called Luftwaffe camouflage markings 1933-1945

    and the other is called

    german aircraft markings 1939-1945

    two great books with tonns of info

    GF
     
  15. Micdrow

    Micdrow “Archive”
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    Hi Dan,

    No there really isnt anything specific on markings as Ive never really studied them in detail. Ive gots some books on markings but to be honest Ive got more stuff to read then I every time and use them for reference when I do research.
     
  16. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    Erich is very right, and it's already becoming confusing!
    OK, I will ATTEMPT to produce a simplified guide, covering the basic markings, and their colour meanings etc.
    Erich, if it's alright with you, I'll contact you now and then, just to verify that what I am producing at the time is correct. I'd hate to start a major 'battle' over this little lot!
    I'll get started as soon as I can, probably in about a month from now, and put it into PDF so that it can be downloaded and saved easily.
    Terry.
     
  17. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    Charles to answer your first question that would be III./JG 301 the JG is a bit out of the ordinary as it used a horizontal second gruppe bar in different colours for Stab, I., II., III., and it's very short lived G-10 IVth gruppe. it was an excellent propaganda ploy to the Allies to goof them up as for typicalness it was not in the LW arsenal of confusing gruppe and Reich markings. Adding to my comments, I. gruppe also did typical no gruppe bar but so did the sister II. gruppe with no bar on it's Doras. and I also must add that even Fw 190A-8's of III. gruppe did also carry NO gruppe symbols, thus anyone can see trying to make a firm ID of the JG's gruppen crates is really tough.
     
  18. ccheese

    ccheese Member In Perpetuity
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    I just found the book, "Luftwaffe Camouflage Markings 1933-1945" by
    K.A. Merrick on the internet for $26.00 usd [new] and I bought it. I don't
    know if this is volume I or II, it didn't say. After I get it [3 to 5 days],
    from Dover, Del. I'll look for the other volume. My Thanks to all.

    Charles
     
  19. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    Charles sad to say you will still be confused but it is a good start. I still stick to my very old Karl Ries volumes which used to be back in the hey day of early LW interests the LW bible for markings, even then it did not cover everything
     
  20. Altinaut

    Altinaut New Member

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    Hey everybody,

    maybe this webside is a bit useful for identifying Geman Luftwaffe planes:

    Luftwaffe Markings Camouflage

    it helped me a lot to identify some planes on pictures, but there can be some special or unique markings as well. Can anybody provide some information about those markings?
     
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