parsifal
Colonel
No you can't Parsifal. Why ? Because from Feb 42 till late Nov 42 the Enigma was fully kryptic. Hence why the operation should ideally take place at this time.
It wasnt fully cryptic. Professor Harry Hinsley describes the situation with regard to the Battle of the Atlantic
"The new system was one by which the christian name surname and address of an imaginary person indicated the table that was in use at any one time for encoding the large square di-graphs of the [standard North Atlantic]grid. By informing the U-Boats that a new address was in force, the U-Boat command could bring a new set of Di-Graph equivalents into use at once at frequent intervals. and since it did frequaentlychange addresses the problem of decoding the position given in the Enigma Signal was able to resist systemisation and require continous ad hoc research until a copy of the address book was captured."
This made it hard enough for Bletchely Park, but then inFebruary 1942 U-Boat Command added an additional wheel on their Enigma machines , that greatly restricted the ability of British Intelligence to pinpoint the exact position of U-Boats, until the latter part of 1942. So that part of your claim is basically correct, but in the context of what we are discussing, it misses or attempts to distort other important issues.
By February 1942 British Inteligence had built up such a comprehensive knowledge of U-Boat commands procedures and U-Boat operations, and could still draw on large amount of other source material, including the fully cracked Wehrmacht codes, the SIS codes (ie the abwehr) the Luftwaffe codes, the OKM Home waters code (which included U_boat movements in the Bay Of Biscay and to the ports in Norway, the CinC Norways codes, that the temporary success achieved by U-Boat command in February was far from complete. The defeat in february meant that convoys could no longer be routed around U-Boat concentrations (because the individua positions of U-Boats could no longer be pinpointed). However the overall level of security of German communications, in particular those outside U-Boat Command remained completely compromised. When you consider that an operation of the kind would need to be planned and discussed outside of U-Boat commands structure, then the chances of such a plan being discovered remained very high
Wrong again Parsifal. All the German agents in America were uncompromised until they turned themselves in.
What is your source for saying this. You have rejected the US reports into the matter, on the face of what appears to be simply that they dont serve your purpose. I'd like you to produce some evidence to support your claim please, otherwise i think most people reading this can safely conclude you are simply blowing off hot air.What other agents were there in addition to the eight mentioned in the FBI and ONI reports
Wrong once again. When the boat was commisioned it functioned perfectly. Like I said the period 15. April 1941 till 24. April 1942 was spent training the crew. Nothing was wrong with U-459.
Source material please. If the U-Boat was ready from the date of commissioning she must truly be an amazing boat. I know of NO instances where a boat of any navy was ready for operations from the date of her commissioning. Just as an example, Bismarck was commissioned 24-08-40, but was not declared "ready for operations" until the end of february 1941. Yes, of course some of that relates to training the crew, but without a properly trained crew how on earth is the boat going to operate properly. If you take an already trained crew, they are still going to spend several months in the work up process.
I suppose I should not get so excited , from someone who describes bunks as bedrooms, and periscopes as telescopes!!!
Once again you're wrong. I've been saying from the start that the operation should take place in early to mid 42.
Thats funny, your very last post said Mid to late 1942....so nominate a date please so we can all start responding to your claims properly
It wasnt fully cryptic. Professor Harry Hinsley describes the situation with regard to the Battle of the Atlantic
"The new system was one by which the christian name surname and address of an imaginary person indicated the table that was in use at any one time for encoding the large square di-graphs of the [standard North Atlantic]grid. By informing the U-Boats that a new address was in force, the U-Boat command could bring a new set of Di-Graph equivalents into use at once at frequent intervals. and since it did frequaentlychange addresses the problem of decoding the position given in the Enigma Signal was able to resist systemisation and require continous ad hoc research until a copy of the address book was captured."
This made it hard enough for Bletchely Park, but then inFebruary 1942 U-Boat Command added an additional wheel on their Enigma machines , that greatly restricted the ability of British Intelligence to pinpoint the exact position of U-Boats, until the latter part of 1942. So that part of your claim is basically correct, but in the context of what we are discussing, it misses or attempts to distort other important issues.
By February 1942 British Inteligence had built up such a comprehensive knowledge of U-Boat commands procedures and U-Boat operations, and could still draw on large amount of other source material, including the fully cracked Wehrmacht codes, the SIS codes (ie the abwehr) the Luftwaffe codes, the OKM Home waters code (which included U_boat movements in the Bay Of Biscay and to the ports in Norway, the CinC Norways codes, that the temporary success achieved by U-Boat command in February was far from complete. The defeat in february meant that convoys could no longer be routed around U-Boat concentrations (because the individua positions of U-Boats could no longer be pinpointed). However the overall level of security of German communications, in particular those outside U-Boat Command remained completely compromised. When you consider that an operation of the kind would need to be planned and discussed outside of U-Boat commands structure, then the chances of such a plan being discovered remained very high
Wrong again Parsifal. All the German agents in America were uncompromised until they turned themselves in.
What is your source for saying this. You have rejected the US reports into the matter, on the face of what appears to be simply that they dont serve your purpose. I'd like you to produce some evidence to support your claim please, otherwise i think most people reading this can safely conclude you are simply blowing off hot air.What other agents were there in addition to the eight mentioned in the FBI and ONI reports
Wrong once again. When the boat was commisioned it functioned perfectly. Like I said the period 15. April 1941 till 24. April 1942 was spent training the crew. Nothing was wrong with U-459.
Source material please. If the U-Boat was ready from the date of commissioning she must truly be an amazing boat. I know of NO instances where a boat of any navy was ready for operations from the date of her commissioning. Just as an example, Bismarck was commissioned 24-08-40, but was not declared "ready for operations" until the end of february 1941. Yes, of course some of that relates to training the crew, but without a properly trained crew how on earth is the boat going to operate properly. If you take an already trained crew, they are still going to spend several months in the work up process.
I suppose I should not get so excited , from someone who describes bunks as bedrooms, and periscopes as telescopes!!!
Once again you're wrong. I've been saying from the start that the operation should take place in early to mid 42.
Thats funny, your very last post said Mid to late 1942....so nominate a date please so we can all start responding to your claims properly