Germans demand apology for allied bombing raids

[Hop]

The bombings was just pure murder, and the bombing on Dredsen was just bad very bad,

As already pointed out, this "pure murder" was a tactic of war developed by the Germans. As Harris put it:

"The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everyone else, and nobody was going to bomb them. At Rotterdam, London, Warsaw, and half a dozen other places, they put their rather naive theory into operation. They sowed the wind, and now they are going to reap the whirlwind."

Britain and France were eager at the start of the war to refrain from Bombing. They held back when Germany bombed Polish cities. They held back when Germany bombed Norwegian cities. Only when Germany bombed western European cities did they begin to bomb Germany at all, and then they restricted it to military targets. Not until after about 20,000 Britions had been killed in terror raids on British cities did Britain begin to do the same to Germany.

I've little sympathy for those who began a particular way of war, and then cry foul when their enemies take it up with more success.

at least the yanks had some guts doing day raids.

About 55,000 RAF Bomber Command crewmen died on operations. That's about 45% of all Bomber Command aircrew. A crewman had more chance of being killed that surviving without injury.

In total, 45% were killed, 8% taken prisoner, 7% wounded and 40% survived unharmed. And every one volunteered for aircrew duty.

They were certainly not lacking in guts.

 

[syscom3]

Funny how the Germans that complain about Dresden conveniently ignore that only 50 miles away, the SS were force marching jews that had survived Auschweitz to other prison camps. And those SS guards had no qualms about killing on the spot anyone who fell behind.

Like I said, the wars over. The people who were in positions of power have all succombed to time. I hold nothing against the Germans for what happened, and I expect they keep their mouths shut over whatever happened to them.

 

[lesofprimus]

Amen to that....

 

[Gnomey]

Yep. Very true syscom and Hop, the Germans were just receiving the same treatment that they had given to London, Rotterdam etc, just on a larger scale. As Goering said at the start of the war that no enemy planes would fly over Berlin/the Reich or you can call me broom. British planes had overflown the Riech before the end of 1939...

 

[ozumn]

what cmon the raid on Dredsden had nothing to do how the war was going, the war was going to en realy soon everyone knew that, and i think its funny well not fun but there where some bomber crew captured and killed by german civ, them civ got executed after the war, wtf.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

what cmon the raid on Dredsden had nothing to do how the war was going, the war was going to en realy soon everyone knew that, and i think its funny well not fun but there where some bomber crew captured and killed by german civ, them civ got executed after the war, wtf.

And bombing London during the Blitz and lobbing V2s on civilian targets had nothing to do with the military outcome of the war either. There's an old saying "Payback's a b*tch." I'm sure there was at least one participant in the raid whose family was killed during the Blitz - I'm sure that guy had no remorse seeing Dresden burning to the ground......

BTW a Chinese woman who survived the Japanese "Rape of Nanking" was interviewed during the 50th anniversary of the atomic bombings, said she wished the US would of firebombed more of Japan and dropped a few more atomic bombs.....

 

[evangilder]

You think it's funny that a combatant is killed by an angry mob? Do you think that this act should go unpunished? A downed enemy airman is a POW and protected by the Geneva Convention. Civilians killing bomber crewmen are committing murder, plain and simple.

 

[plan_D]

The Luftwaffe recognised this, and most Luftwaffe servicemen would take every oppurtunity to protect Allied airmen that fell into their hands. Hubert Zemke was saved by his escort who threatened the angry mob with his pistol as they attempted to get at Zemke.

Once in the hands of the enemy, you are a PoW. Not a prisoner for crimes committed, but for simply doing your job on the "wrong" side of the war. Killing these people was murder, and murderers should be punished to the full extent of the law.

 

[Udet]

Prince Plan_D of SouthYorkshire is correct when saying many Luftwaffe personnel tried to protect downed enemy airmen falling into their hands.

Not all of them though; there were many German pilots angry at seeing USAAF fighters shooting German pilots hanging in their parachutes. Many times the americans also tried to straf them once they had hit the ground.

Apparently, a large number of German pilots from the latest generation (1944) sought revenge when reaching service during that bloody year. There were many times when USAAF fighter pilots got gunned down by German fighter pilots as well.

Not a coincidence when I hear USAAF vets telling me that the German pilots of the latest phase of the war were "utterly agressive bastards".

Please note that I am not trying to open a debate as to whether shooting at parachuting pilots is legal or not. I am just bringing on opinions that showed there were German pilots who were furious because of that, and simply resorted to kill americans whenever they could.

In fact the Germans were countless times better at treating USA and UK PoW´s than the guys of both nations were at treating the German ones when the war ended.


I have had the chance of knowing of a Hungarian veteran of the war that still referrs to the USAAF pilots as "criminals" for he himself witnessed Mustangs straffing columns of civilians fleeing from the advancing red army.

Whenever any of those pilots gunning helpless and shocked civilians got shot down near the spot, perhaps by a German or Hungatian pilot, some of them met real painful and terrible deaths.

 

[syscom3]

Udet, the german people were lucky they got off so lightly. If justice was truely served, Germany would have been systematically dismembered with anything of commercial or industrial value removed and sent as reperations to the tens of millions of victims.

Good thing mercy was shown to them.

And Ozum, the war continued for 2 1/2 months longer, with tens of thousands of additional dead. The Nazi's had every opportunity to begin surrender negotiations and if they thought they could still fight to the end, well tough luck.

Germany and Japan sowed the wind and reaped the whirlwind.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

The bombings was just pure murder, and the bombing on Dredsen was just bad very bad, atleast the yanks had some guts doing day raids.

adler's right that's absurd, Dresden was a perfectly legitimate military target, we were at war what did you really respect, the germans bombed us by night too! and how is dropping a bomb by night any different to doing it by day?

 

[Udet]

deleted.

 

[lesofprimus]

Germany and Japan sowed the wind and reaped the whirlwind.

Bottom line, this is the purest truth....

 

[evangilder]

yup

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I think I am going to have to stay out of this conversation here because there are just people here that have no fricking clue what they are talking about.

Les, syscom I agree with you that Germany reaped the benifits of the Marschal plan and I agree that Germany has no right to complain.

Now for the part that I dont agree about and this is for those that are talking about Germans demanding apologies. If you really think that the German people/government is demanding apologies then you have no clue. Not very many do, the Germans know what they did in WW2 and are trying to move on with there lives. The German people of today had nothing to do with what happened in WW2. Yes there are some that hold on to the past and complain about Dresden but you know what, there are people in every country that complain about the past; The African Americans in the United States for example. Should these things be forgoten? Ofcourse not however what I am trying to say is for those that make just subtle comments about this, learn your damn facts first.

There now I will leave this particaluler conversation alone.

 

[syscom3]

Well said DerAdler. Its probably a bunch of leftist rabble rousers who are bloviating about it.

By the way, is "particaluler" a German word? heheheheheh

 

[Soren]

Yep, well said Adler.

Don't ever completely trust what is said in the newspaper !

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

By the way, is "particaluler" a German word? heheheheheh

 

[wmaxt]

I think Adler is right about this, the average German knows about both the causes of the war and the aftermath and is just moving on.

The part I have some problems with is that the Japanese have cleaned up their teachings about the part they played and the things they did in WWII, and if the reports I've heard are correct, are teaching that they were the victims.

In my mind WWII happened, its over but we should never exploit, repeat or forget not only what happened but why it happened.

wmaxt

 

[Hunter368]

I think Adler is right about this, the average German knows about both the causes of the war and the aftermath and is just moving on.

The part I have some problems with is that the Japanese have cleaned up their teachings about the part they played and the things they did in WWII, and if the reports I've heard are correct, are teaching that they were the victims.

In my mind WWII happened, its over but we should never exploit, repeat or forget not only what happened but why it happened.

wmaxt

Not sure if that is true or not about the Japanese, I would like to know more details if anyone can provide them.I would not be surprised if it was true. The one comment I would add to this:

Few people can or will admit when they are wrong, never mind a nation heavily based on an old honor code that does not forgive failure or dishonor.

Japanese culture (in WW2 era) was very different to Europe's or North America's. It is hard for us to understand their way of thinking (ie suicide, Kamikaze, very very strict command structure). Bushido "Way of the Warrior" is a very strange code for a European or North American to follow or relate to. It is interesting to study.