Germany uses the Lancaster ?

[Antarctica]

Germany had several opportunities to repair & fly crashed Lancasters but decided that the technology wasn't as good as their own. The only Lanc they did fly was repaired by the Lufthansa maintenance depot & used to drop collected "window" to test their night-fighter radar.

As they suffered through-out the war from a lack of big 4-engined bombers, what if they had repaired several of the early captured ones & maybe started copying the design as their long-range bomber ?

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

It had nothing to do with the technology. Germany did not think it was any better or worse than their own technology.

They simply did not use any captured Lancasters because there was no advantage to it. They did not have a sustainable supply of spare parts to continuously repair them and keep them airworthy and mission ready. Too many resources would be wasted.

Furthermore the efforts would not have gotten them much. What would a handful of Lancaster's achieve for them? Next to nothing.

Also reverse engineering them would have also been a waste of resources.

 

[Greg Boeser]

According to Wiki the Lancaster first flight was Jan 1941, and it took a year before it was introduced into service and saw its first combat mission in April. Germans would have gotten their first captured examples soon after. The Lancaster was a development of the Manchester, so much of the tooling was already in place for Avro. But the Germans would have to start from scratch. How long would it take to reverse engineer it? A year? How much longer would it take to build or adapt an existing factory to produce it? What aircraft would not be built to accommodate the resources required to produce the Lankaster? It took a year from first flight to squadron service and another several months before it was introduced into combat.
The war is over before the Lankaster makes its combat debut.

 

[Greg Boeser]

It took the Soviet Union three years to reverse engineer the B-29 to produce the Tu 4. First flight 1947.

 

[GTX]

As a twist, on this, what if we diverge in early Sept 1940? The Luftwaffe continues attacks on RAF airfields and associated air defence facilities instead of allowing its attention to be diverted into attacking cities. This leads to the total collapse of 11 Group. With local air supremacy achieved, Operation "Sealion" goes ahead. After a couple of months, all resistance collapses – this is especially hastened once Hitler reassures the British population that they were brothers to the Germans and shouldn't be fighting each other. Britain becomes part of the 'Greater Pan-European Reich' - a minimal German 'protection' force is based in Britain. Large quantities of RAF and RN equipment are integrated into the Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine. Recognising the superb resources now at their disposal, senior Reich military staff successfully convince Hitler to allow British firms to compete for military contracts on an equal footing with their German counterparts. To best capitalise upon this, designers are encouraged to follow through with developmental designs.

The results:

• Goering proves he has sense of humour and orders JG26 to receive a Staffel of Spitfires for Galland;
• Special interest is shown in heavy bombers under development – this results in the late 1941/early 1942 introduction of the first Kampfgruppen of Lancasters & Halifaxs (nicknamed the 'Ural KGs' by crews);
• Upon witnessing the superb performance of the De Havilland Mosquito, the "Bomber B" project is cancelled.

 

[EwenS]

It took the Soviet Union three years to reverse engineer the B-29 to produce the Tu 4. First flight 1947.

The Soviets requested B-29s under Lend Lease on several occasions during WW2 and were turned down as was Britain IIRC.

An eventual 3 CBI based B-29 aircraft landed intact in Soviet Far Eastern territory, plus another crashed, between 29 July and 11 Nov 1944. It was Jan 1945 before the Soviets were able to fly the first of these arrivals westwards for more extensive study. It was May 1945 before Stalin ordered the reverse engineering programme to begin and 22 June 1945 before it was formally begun for what was initially known as the B-4 later Tu-4 with the NATO reporting name Bull. It was 10 July before Tupelov, the aircraft designer given the task, carried out his first inspection on a B-29.

First flight of the Tu-4 was 19 May 1947 and the West got its first sight of it in Aug that year, but initially thought they were the interned B-29s returned to flight status. It was 1948/49 before it entered front line service in any numbers.

The Wiki article is well referenced and highlights the difficulties involved in the process, starting with redrawing everything in metric measurements. The Smithsonian article provides a more detailed insight.

Tupolev Tu-4 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Tupolev Tu 4

Made in the U.S.S.R.

Of course they copied it. The two airplanes could have been twins. But was the Soviets' Tu-4 truly an exact duplicate of the Boeing B-29?

www.smithsonianmag.com

 

[pbehn]

Stating that the Lancaster was no better than what they had is nonsense. It would have had black crosses on, and would be the best bomber until B-52s started to be made.

 

[WARSPITER]

Given the British clutch and gearbox systems at the time it is doubtful whether Luftwaffe drivers could have
got Lancs into top gear to get up enough speed to take off anyway.

 

[pbehn]

Given the British clutch and gearbox systems at the time it is doubtful whether Luftwaffe drivers could have
got Lancs into top gear to get up enough speed to take off anyway.

That is fortunate, they would have flown on the wrong side of the sky.

 

[WARSPITER]

That is fortunate, they would have flown on the wrong side of the sky.

Plus when the MOT runs out they wouldn't be allowed over England anyway.

 

[pbehn]

Plus when the MOT runs out they wouldn't be allowed over England anyway.

Lancs dont run without tea, this plan hasnt been thought through.

 

[Barrett]

There's a glimpse of an apparently intact Land in an oft-seen Youtube 8AF strafing montage. Just FWIW.

 

[Alex Smart]

Luftwaffe Lancaster?

Stranger things have happened. And if not, it would make for good historic-fiction.

ww2aircraft.net

 

[ThomasP]

Good MOT does not run out.

 

[Simon Thomas]

I wonder if the German's could have used a Lancaster to drop the German nuke? The bomb may may have been altered to make it fit, and range against the UK shouldn't be too much of an issue.
Getting to New York may require in-flight refuelling...

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Germany had several opportunities to repair & fly crashed Lancasters but decided that the technology wasn't as good as their own. The only Lanc they did fly was repaired by the Lufthansa maintenance depot & used to drop collected "window" to test their night-fighter radar.

As they suffered through-out the war from a lack of big 4-engined bombers, what if they had repaired several of the early captured ones & maybe started copying the design as their long-range bomber ?

The Germans didn't have the industrial base to build any 4-engined bombers in meaningful numbers, given the demands upon industry for tanks and U-boats. The fact that they tried and failed with the He-177 only sucked additional resources out of the room for the project you suggest.

 

[GrauGeist]

The Luftwaffe had several four engined heavy bomber prospects which could have been used to great advantage but several factors weigh in here, that made a substantial heavy bomber fleet impossible.

First off, the RLM in it's infinite wisdom, wanted everything to be dive-bomb capable. This idiotic notion set back or stalled several types that could have been in service at a time the Luftwaffe could have used them to good effect.

Next, raw materials and components - Germany's manufacturing output was almost on a relaxed schedule early in the war. They were hard pressed to manufacture fighters (and needed engines) until the war situation became dire and only then, did they boost manufacturing output. Which was sort of like closing the barn doors after the horses got out. So heavy bombers in any substantial numbers simply weren't going to happen after 1943.

Add to this, the fact that after November 1942, Germany was in dire need of bomber crews, as many had bexome casualties of the ill-fated Stalingrad airlift, including flifht instructors, who were pressed into service.

If Germany couldn't field fleets of Me264s, He177s or Ju290s, you can be sure a reverse engineered Lancaster, B-24 or B-17 was not going to happen.

 

[Antarctica]

A modified Ju-390 could possibly carry a nuke, provided Germany lasted the extra 5 years they needed to make a nuke. Germany invades Iceland, refuel there & on to New York.

pics from a US newspaper circa 1940.

 

[GrauGeist]

Iceland had Allied Naval Bases and Airfields with active air and naval patrols.

Absolutely no chance a Luftwaffe aircraft was going to get near Iceland, let alone land there, unmolested.

 

[Greg Boeser]

Iceland had Allied Naval Bases and Airfields with active air and naval patrols.

Absolutely no chance a Luftwaffe aircraft was going to get near Iceland, let alone land there, unmolested.

The US population was about 1/3 German ethnicity. A cabal of Deutsche Amerikanische Bund members in the upper ranks of the military secretly screens the troops for pro-German sympathizers, assigns them to Iceland, and allows the Germans to land their planes there. They hope that a successful bombing of New York will set off a panic which they can exploit to sieze control of the country.