Gold-Clash

[Soren]

I am finding these posts on the Spit and Dora quite interesting

am curious if you have interviewed Dora 9 pilots to get these assumptions or facts ? or is this from research through ? what books please.

If you are going by what Englishman Eric Brown has to say then it is bunk as Eric never came up agasint a Dora let alone flew one for the Luftwaffe in combat

Is it me your refering to ?

Well in that case, yes much of it is from reading, and alot from years of depating the issue.

In any case you should tjek out these books: "Focke-Wulf FW 190 Aces of the Western Front" by John Weal, "Focke-Wulf Fw 190 Aces of the Russian Front" also by John Weal, and "Focke-Wulf Fw 190" by Malcolm V. Lowe.

And NO im certainly not going by what Eric Brown is saying, as he's a bloody lier in my eyes.

 

[Erich]

U haven't quoted from Ospreys book have U ? arg.........

think we should definately wait for Crandalls operative book on the Dora coming out later this year or even ............ eeeeeeeeek I am going to say it. Schiffers attempt at the Dora 9.

you're right about E.Brown. although it would have been fun being in his shoes testing a/c after war's end.

 

[Soren]

U haven't quoted from Ospreys book have U ? arg.........

Osprey books are good quality books Erich. The reason I picked these three was because their short and very informative. I have lots of other books on the Fw-190, but most are relatively old ones, and some not souly about the Fw-190.

think we should definately wait for Crandalls operative book on the Dora coming out later this year or even ............ eeeeeeeeek I am going to say it. Schiffers attempt at the Dora 9.

And why is that ?

you're right about E.Brown.

Yes. However his hardest, most false and most stupid critiques were not against the 190, but the 109.

although it would have been fun being in his shoes testing a/c after wars end.

Definitely.

 

[Erich]

this is the reason why Osprey books are in demand............they are cheap. Some of the text is quite wrong and the WW 2 profiles esepcially for German a/c are horrid and incorrect. When the ehck did Willi Reschke release his definitve markings for his supposed Fw 190A-8 in the western front aces that he flew ? there is no known pic of his a/c, esepcially the sought after Fw 190A-8/R2. The book on the Afrika units is terrible with 8/10ths of the profiles a fantasy as well as the camo for the German nf aces another book sadly that I own. For Osprey books stick to the Napoleonics although they are trying with their elite series of US fighter ace books, the profiles again area bit loud.

A friend and I have been asked repeatedly to release our version of the SturmFw units for Osprey. We have declined...........

 

[Nonskimmer]

I agree that the Osprey books aren't exactly the best sources of info, but I wouldn't call them cheap.
At least not around here.

 

[Soren]

this is the reason why Osprey books are in demand............they are cheap. Some of the text is quite wrong and the WW 2 profiles esepcially for German a/c are horrid and incorrect. When the ehck did Willi Reschke release his definitve markings for his supposed Fw 190A-8 in the western front aces that he flew ? there is no known pic of his a/c, esepcially the sought after Fw 190A-8/R2. The book on the Afrika units is terrible with 8/10ths of the profiles a fantasy as well as the camo for the German nf aces another book sadly that I own. For Osprey books stick to the Napoleonics although they are trying with their elite series of US fighter ace books, the profiles again area bit loud.

A friend and I have been asked repeatedly to release our version of the SturmFw units for Osprey. We have declined...........

I wasnt really aware of that I must admit, but my answer to that would be "Go buy a modellers book".

The Osprey books mostly concentrates themselves on the a/c's performance stats and history, and I find their info on a/c's performance stats very correct and detailed, both in a scientific view-point and a common sense one. The Historic parts I regard as reliable aswell.

Btw are you a writer yourself ?

 

[Glider]

Soren Can I ask on what basis you call Eric Brown a 'bloody liar'. He was British and therefore Eric a little unlikely to have flown a 190 of any type in combat. On this basis you would discount any test pilot who flew any captured foreign plane on the same basis.
However he was a test pilot who flew almost every captured axis aircraft as well as nearly all the USA and UK aircraft extensively. This gave him a unique oppertunity to compare the latest planes against one another.
In addition he did have combat experience and was a fighter pilot first and a test pilot second. Most test pilots had no combat experience although some were given limited combat experience to assist with their evaluations.
You have I take it, read his evaluation of the 190 that landed in the UK and his comparision in mock dogfights against the latest Spits. Where he is full of praise for the 190 and its abilities.

Soren, Can I end with a request that you put up your evidence that he is a liar.

Feel free to disagree with him but if you get personal, be aware that he is an acknowledged expert in his field, from all corners of the globe, and you, are not.

 

[Soren]

Soren Can I ask on what basis you call Eric Brown a 'bloody liar'. He was British and therefore Eric a little unlikely to have flown a 190 of any type in combat. On this basis you would discount any test pilot who flew any captured foreign plane on the same basis.
However he was a test pilot who flew almost every captured axis aircraft as well as nearly all the USA and UK aircraft extensively. This gave him a unique oppertunity to compare the latest planes against one another.
In addition he did have combat experience and was a fighter pilot first and a test pilot second. Most test pilots had no combat experience although some were given limited combat experience to assist with their evaluations.
You have I take it, read his evaluation of the 190 that landed in the UK and his comparision in mock dogfights against the latest Spits. Where he is full of praise for the 190 and its abilities.

Soren, Can I end with a request that you put up your evidence that he is a liar.

Feel free to disagree with him but if you get personal, be aware that he is an acknowledged expert in his field, from all corners of the globe, and you, are not.

We have a 'Eric Brown supporter' I see ! (Almost as bad as supporting Kit Carson ! )

First off read my posts a little more carefully before you shoot back:

However his hardest, most false and most stupid critiques were not against the 190, but the 109.

-------------------------------------

As to why he is a lier (either that or just 'Stupid'), I assume you havent read his view points on the 109 ? And if you have, and you agree with them, you havent read A SINGLE other test with the 109 or much info about it either.

Now im not gonna go into the details at this moment as there is simply so many stupid and false comments made by him about 109, that it would take ages to quote. But in short Brown was VERY biased. And if you don't know why, you simply havent read enough books or articles about this particular subject.

Fact is Brown was so wrong about the 109 that German chief test pilot Heinrich Beauvais and many other German pilots highly disagreed with his statements. Beauvais even tried to get into contact after the war with Eric Brown to discuss the matters, but Brown refused to meet him, Brown refused to listen to a pilot who'd flown more in the 109 than he ever had, and was more interested in believing his own negative findings of the 109 than being proven wrong by an expert !

 

[Glider]

Soren
I have only read his comments on the G6 which make sense to me, with a balance of positive and negative comments. However, you have obviously seen others and have the advantaqe on me so I give way to you on his view of the 109.
However to say that he is a liar and or stupid is very rash of you. It implies that you know better than a highly experienced test and combat pilot.
You also cannot deny that he is an expert in the field recognised by other professionals and that also seems to hurt you.

So I repeat what I said. Feel free to disagree that is what these forums are about, but you are not in a position to get personal.

 

[lesofprimus]

I gotta leave 4 work now, but i will comment later... My Grandfather, who flew with VMF-214, called this man a liar as well....

 

[Soren]

However to say that he is a liar and or stupid is very rash of you. It implies that you know better than a highly experienced test and combat pilot.

Read my comment below.

You also cannot deny that he is an expert in the field recognised by other professionals and that also seems to hurt you.

Yes, he's recognized as a "Liar" by other professionals.

And no he's definitely NOT an expert, he's an "Expert-liar" thats what he is.

I think you'll agree that you can't call a guy who presents obviously wrong data an "expert", now can you ?

So I repeat what I said. Feel free to disagree that is what these forums are about, but you are not in a position to get personal.

Glider Brown's comments are so false and stupid, that he is rightfully presented as a liar in many books and articles ! So im not getting personal at all, im just handing out the facts here, and fact is Brown was either a liar or just plain stupid.

As a side note: Im not barking at you Glider, but at Brown and his sickening lies, thats all. So please don't feel offended in any way by the above.

 

[Erich]

Soren in Luftrwaffe cirlces of searious research Osprey titles are taboo and considered well below average. incomplete and wrong operational text, mis captioned pics still to this day. Copied scans of copyrighted photos, and on it goes. They are cheap booklets nothing more and that is why they are so popular. muach has been used from the old bogus William Greens Third Reich ww 2 a/c.

They are good for starting the fire in the fireplace. Hopefully soon they will wise up. Their campaign titles are rehash of old news that is incorrect and just recopied works from other known authors.

 

[Soren]

Soren in Luftrwaffe cirlces of searious research Osprey titles are taboo and considered well below average. incomplete and wrong operational text, mis captioned pics still to this day. Copied scans of copyrighted photos, and on it goes. They are cheap booklets nothing more and that is why they are so popular. muach has been used from the old bogus William Greens Third Reich ww 2 a/c.

They are good for starting the fire in the fireplace. Hopefully soon they will wise up. Their campaign titles are rehash of old news that is incorrect and just recopied works from other known authors.

As I said Im mostly going for the Performance stats in those books, so it doesnt bother me that much. Also I have so many other books about the 190 and 109, that it really doesnt matter much.

As for the Historic part, I really havent found any clear mistakes there yet, maby you could point some out to me ?

Looking forward to Crandalls release you mentioned though.

Btw are you a writer yourself Erich ? (I think you missed it last time I asked )

----------------------------

(Small Edit: accidently wrote Grandalls instead of Crandalls )

 

[Erich]

i think you need to read some of my earlier postings from last year.

I co-author a web-site which is on my profile stats. Still running and very historical and to the point.

Have helped resersach two books already and working on a third from Germany covering the German night ground attack.

My own book co-authored on the "Moskito-jagd over Germany" where we have special emphasis on the almost unknown 10./NJG 11 aka Kommando Welter. 750 pages and we are reducing it, maybe 2 volumes.

I am also writing a book on my interviews with German night fighter crews piloting Ju 88G-6's during late 44 till wars end. "In the Shadow of the Moon"

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I happen to agree about Eric Brown. He was very biased and from what I can tell he did not report on how things really were.

 

[Soren]

i think you need to read some of my earlier postings from last year.

Maby, but sadly I wasnt around at that time.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

You can still go back and read them.

 

[Soren]

You can still go back and read them.

Where ?

 

[superunknown]

While your on the subject of books, have any of you ever read any of the Squadron/Signal publications?

I think the P-51 would just win, but then again I am biased. I do enjoy "sawing" the wings off 109's in my Mustang whilst playing Sturmovik, both on offline. But like that is anything to go by, it's only a game......but still fun

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I have a couple of them. I like them for the profiles.