Gravity Feed versus pick up feed

Discussion in 'Painting Questions, Tutorials and Guidebooks' started by dneid, Dec 8, 2012.

  1. dneid

    dneid Active Member

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    Hey, All,
    Ok, I have an oooolllllldddddd Paasche VL, a new Paasche Talon, and a new iIwata Eclipse HP-CS. I am not positive what size tips are on the Talon or HP-CS. I do know the VL has a very fine tip and needle (I have all 3 for it and almost never change out the very fine set). After a few weeks of playing with the gravity fed brushes, I am discovering I can get much finer lines with the VL than either the Talon or the Iwata. Now, the questions I have are:
    1) Is this a result of the VL having to "pull" the paint up from the cup versus having it flow down from the gravity fed cups?
    2) Is this from an "excessive" flow of paint DOWN into the brush versus being pulled up into the air stream?
    3) If, as I suspect, the Talon and Iwata have 0.5mm tips, will moving down to a 0.3 mm tip and nozzle make a huge difference?

    That is it for now. BTW, I do not feel a huge difference between the Talon and the Iwata. Both are excellent brushes with great feel. I do like the fact that I can set a "backstop" on the Talon to ensure I do not over feed paint for those fine lines. BTW, I do think I can get the gravity fed brushes to the point where I can use them for those PITA (Pain in the arse) crazy Luftwaffe camo schemes. I KNOW I can get those details with the VL.
    Dale
     
  2. stona

    stona Well-Known Member

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    Your Iwata has a 0.35mm needle/nozzle.
    The only difference I've noticed between gravity and siphon feed airbrushes is that I waste a lot less paint with a gravity feed. I now use a couple of Iwatas and occassionally an H+S,all gravity feed,for all my work.
    Steve
     
  3. dneid

    dneid Active Member

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    Thanks, stona. It is good to know that.
    Dale
     
  4. Aaron Brooks Wolters

    Aaron Brooks Wolters Well-Known Member

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    Dale, the fan or patter has to do with the tip and nozzel. The nozzel being the aircap around the tip. I have the Iwata Eclipse HP-CS also and the pattern is a little wide for my liking. When I can afford to I will purchase another with a tighter pattern. You can get on line and go to each companies website and check out there complete line and specs. I did not do this when I bought this airbrush but it works great for painting the entire fuselage and wings and I can keep the paint thin saving material and aircraft detail.
     
  5. dneid

    dneid Active Member

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    Hey, Aaron,
    Thanks for the reply. I bought the Iwata based on things I read here. It is a great airbrush, feels great, works smoothly, throws a nice pattern. However, my Paasche VL can throw much finer lines than the Iwata. The Talon seems tight as well. I just need to find that "sweet spot" of paint viscosity, air pressure, and throw on the paint control on it. I think the Talon will be my choice over the Iwata, but I need to spend more time with both. I assume the VL and I get along so well as I have been using it off and on for over 20 yrs.
    I do tune up all my brushes every few months and that certainly helps. I polish all moving parts with 600-2000 grit paper. Keep em all smooth and slick to the feel.
    Dale
     
  6. stona

    stona Well-Known Member

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    I find that I can manage Luftwaffe mottle and soft demarcations free hand with the Iwata brushes. I know this was done with one of them because my other brush was U/S when I painted this.

    [​IMG]

    All done freehand.

    Steve
     
  7. destrozas

    destrozas Well-Known Member

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    Not if you sell there any settings Iwata needles and shutters as they do here, I buy the Iwata CM-C + needle and shutter 0'25mm 0.13 and the dealer who is in Barcelona to 90 miles from my house.
    From the point of view of a shopkeeper specializing in airbrush and accessories iwata formed in Italy, as it was in my spare time, after my work in a company, (had a store of my work), if you wanted to make fine lines You really should have watched the Iwata CM-C + or H S Evolution 2 in 1 the 0.13-0'2mm, are great, I have them both saved for when you stop being a painting paws and resume more serious about painting , and others have time, I have not proven Paasche, actually the representative of the brand in Spain is very bad and I do not look forward to work with, but I looked good prices online and make sure me one to prove it, is a bane for me, I love collecting expensive airbrushes as my wife.

    Anyway I commented to one economic look what can be done only by knowing the airbrush.

    I'm doing this forum:

    IMG_0057-1.jpg
    this one I'm doing but I have not even put on the forum due to time:

    IMG_0018.jpg

    both are painted with an AB-180k of my brand (Moess) and are 1/72, for a good finish just need a lot of practice and knowledge of the interaction between the airbrush, air and paint.
     
  8. stona

    stona Well-Known Member

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    Never a truer word said!

    I would be wary of using very small nozzles with hobby/model paints. Some of the smaller nozzles are really designed for different media like inks. The pigments in the sorts of paints most modellers use may not be ground as finely as they might hope.

    Cheers
    Steve
     
  9. dneid

    dneid Active Member

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    #9 dneid, Dec 9, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2012
    You know, the one thing I find constant in airbrushing is practice, practice, and more practice. I think that is why my VL and I work together so well. I have been using that brush off and on for over 20 years. I know how it feels in my hand and under my fingers. I know how to just pull back that certain way to get a fine line with that brush. She has held up VERY well over 20+ yrs. Heck, I am still using the ORIGINAL needle and nozzle set (it came with a very fine set). Yes, I am a bit anal with cleaning and upkeep on my brushes. Yes, I do regular preventive maintenance on them all. The differences in using a well polished needle and nozzle can not be overstated. I even have a very fine tipped polishing bit that lets me polish just a little into the exit of the nozzle and the back side interior of a very fine nozzle. I just have to be patient and use a very soft touch when doing so. However, the results are stunning. My VL can throw down just under 1/16 of inch wide line very smoothly with about 30-40% thinning and about 10-12 psi.

    The Talon and I are getting along better and better each day. I need to put all the kits aside one day soon here and just practice on some sheet styrene with the Talon and keep careful notes of the mix in thinning and what air pressure the Talon likes.

    After a full 5 days of playing with the Iwata and the Talon and the VL, I think I will return the Iwata. It is damned nice brush, just not for me though. And, the $150 I will get back can go towards a few kits. It will also buy me some more paints and sheet styrene to practice with. The one thing I have learned is that my old VL just ROCKS. I have a friend who airbrushes custom paint jobs in the custom car biz. He has seen what I can do with my VL and has used my VL. He has commented on how wonderful of a brush it is. I guess it being 20 yrs old may make a difference, not sure about that though. I guess it is a good brush as my friend has hounded me to sell it to him for a couple of years now. No luck there. I will be buried with that brush!

    Oh, and I do have my very 1st airbrush still. It is a single stage Paasche H brush. I love that brush as well. However, she has been relegated to shooting Future and final flat finishes for about 10 years now. She has NEVER let me down as well. Again, it is more the man than the brush. Practice, practice, practice.

    Thank you to all of you who have replied to this thread. I sure appreciate your time and comments. So, donning the respirator, opening the window, turning on the box fan to vent everything, I am off to practice, practice, practice.......
    Dale

    PS, did I mention practice? You can never get too much practice.

    BTW, destrozas and stona, VERY nice work! Love your finishes. I guess this all points to different for different folks. My VL can achieve similar finishes as long as I am patient and work slowly. I hope to have the Emil finished by Jan and will be able show what my VL is capable of.
     
  10. dneid

    dneid Active Member

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    Well, just a quick update. I did take the Iwata back and received a refund. I then took some of the refunded $$ and ordered the smallest nozzle/needle set for the Talon. Those should be in sometime next week. I will be very curious how well that set works with enamels. I am still dithering with air pressure and thinning amounts with the Talon, but I am making progress. She seems to really like around 8-10 psi and about 30% thinning to get this real fine lines. I need to compare this against the VL.
    Dale
     
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