Groundhog Thread Part Deux - P-39 Fantasy and Fetish - The Never Ending Story (Mods take no responsibility for head against wall injuries sustained) (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter greybeard
- Start date
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P-39 Expert
Non-Expert
This makes a lot more sense.I have readthat the additional belly armour was only fitted in the recon model. It was made of aluminum, and IIRC it was about 3' x 4' and weighed 75 lbs. Also IIRC it was located about where the outline shows it in the image below.
edit: added the image below
View attachment 637932
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
I'm thinking along these lines, too.
One of the heaviest pieces of armor was the nose armor, that ranged between 70 to 95 pounds, depending on the variant.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
I believe it was documented that Shomo and his wing man (Lieutenant Paul Lipscomb) may have come across a flight of very green pilots on a training mission, thus the lack of aggressiveness of the fighters, IIRC 3 of the Japanese fighters actually fled the engagement.
swampyankee
Chief Master Sergeant
- 4,004
- Jun 25, 2013
Likely correct. Steel armor one inch thick weighs about forty pounds per square foot. Seven-hundred fifty pounds of armour 0.25 in thick -- which is thick for aircraft armor -- would cover 75 square feet, far larger than likely.
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
A win is a win.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
The Hs129's armored bathtub and windscreen weighed over a ton and ranged from 1/4" to 1/2" in it's construction (windscreen was almost 3" thick).
So figure the P-39's 256 pounds of standard armor plus the alleged 750 pound belly armor would put it at roughly half the weight of the Hs129's armor.
That's a hell of alot of weight...
So figure the P-39's 256 pounds of standard armor plus the alleged 750 pound belly armor would put it at roughly half the weight of the Hs129's armor.
That's a hell of alot of weight...
fubar57
General
What if you just removed all the pilots from the P-39s?
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
I never would have thought of that.
Snautzer01
Honourably banned
- 42,545
- Mar 26, 2007
I think you have cracked it.
special ed
2nd Lieutenant
- 5,606
- May 13, 2018
I remember Shomo and his wingman came across a flight, of I think Tonys, as a cerimony escort. It has been about 40 years since I read about it and I couldn't begin to find which book and verify my memory, but what stands out is his wingman landed first and was berated about his leader making repeated victory rolls.. He told those watching what happened and of his own victories and when asked why he had not made victory rolls of his own, he said that he had just checked out in the Mustang and was not sure how.
glennasher
Senior Airman
I always wondered about Shomo's career. Retired a light colonel after 26 years and a MOH? He must have had a pretty lackluster or troubled career after his eventful flight in the Philippines that day. Something to think about, anyway.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Interesting bit about Maj. Shomo, he started flying for the 5th AF in 1944, flying tactical recon missions (typically a P-39Q) but on 2 September 44, led a four ship armed recon mission in a P-40, the other three being P-39s. They hit bad weather and turned back and all three P-39s were lost (all MIA), he being the only one to return.
In October '44, he transitioned to the F-6D and on 10 January 45, he claimed his first kill.
It was 11 January 45 that was his landmark mission, he and his wingman being in F-6Ds on an armed PR mission when they bounced 11 KI-61s and one KI-44 escorting a G4M at 2,500 feet.
He scored six fighters and the Betty while his wingman scored three.
So Shomo's war total was eight enemy aircraft, none of which were in a P-39, even though he heaped high praise on it.
In October '44, he transitioned to the F-6D and on 10 January 45, he claimed his first kill.
It was 11 January 45 that was his landmark mission, he and his wingman being in F-6Ds on an armed PR mission when they bounced 11 KI-61s and one KI-44 escorting a G4M at 2,500 feet.
He scored six fighters and the Betty while his wingman scored three.
So Shomo's war total was eight enemy aircraft, none of which were in a P-39, even though he heaped high praise on it.
Here is what I take from this:
Joe Blow Pilot who actually flew the plane < Armchair pilot who has shown he cannot read simple charts
Joe Blow Pilot who actually flew the plane < Armchair pilot who has shown he cannot read simple charts
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
I believe one Tojo was in the flight - maybe the instructor or senior pilot?
Shortround6
Major General
The weight could be a typo, steel armor weighs 40lbs per sq ft for a 1 in thickness.
750lbs is 18.75 sq ft of 1 in armor. Or 37.5 sq ft of 1/2 in armor, adjust as you see fit but something seems off.
750lbs is 18.75 sq ft of 1 in armor. Or 37.5 sq ft of 1/2 in armor, adjust as you see fit but something seems off.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
75 pounds would certainly be more realistic.
And back in the mists of time I have a sort of memory that totalled up all the weight reductions, fuel cells, guns, ammo, armour etc that were also about 750Lbs, of which some could have been belly armour. From the drawing posted, if that weighed 750LBs it must have been inch thick steel at least.
