Groundhog Thread Part Deux - P-39 Fantasy and Fetish - The Never Ending Story (Mods take no responsibility for head against wall injuries sustained) (4 Viewers)

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

So the person interviewed, Lt. Col. William A. Shomo, a 26 year Air Force veteran, Medal of Honor Winner (with 6 kills in one mission) with several thousand flight hours in various combat aircraft (to include the P-39) is just making this up?!?!? But you "read" about this?????

View attachment 637920

Aka...

He's just a joe pilot...

 

[P-39 Expert]

I have read that the additional belly armour was only fitted in the recon model. It was made of aluminum, and IIRC it was about 3' x 4' and weighed 75 lbs. Also IIRC it was located about where the outline shows it in the image below.

edit: added the image below
View attachment 637932

This makes a lot more sense.

 

[GrauGeist]

I'd b willing to bet "750" lbs is a typo for 75 lbs.

I'm thinking along these lines, too.
One of the heaviest pieces of armor was the nose armor, that ranged between 70 to 95 pounds, depending on the variant.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

So show me the 750lb piece of armor. All the rest of the armor on the plane weighed about 250lbs. Didn't say Shomo was incorrect. The writer may have been mistaken.

THEN SAY THAT TO BEGIN WITH!!!!

 

[FLYBOYJ]

And yet Shomo flew P-39Qs for a year with zero VC. All his scores came flying the F-6D (7 total. 6 in one mission). I'm wondering where he developed his successful engagement skills versus the Zero.

I believe it was documented that Shomo and his wing man (Lieutenant Paul Lipscomb) may have come across a flight of very green pilots on a training mission, thus the lack of aggressiveness of the fighters, IIRC 3 of the Japanese fighters actually fled the engagement.

 

[swampyankee]

I'd be willing to bet "750" lbs is a typo for 75 lbs.

Likely correct. Steel armor one inch thick weighs about forty pounds per square foot. Seven-hundred fifty pounds of armour 0.25 in thick -- which is thick for aircraft armor -- would cover 75 square feet, far larger than likely.

 

[SaparotRob]

I believe it was documented that Shomo and his wing man (Lieutenant Paul Lipscomb) may have come across a flight of very green pilots on a training mission, thus the lack of aggressiveness of the fighters, IIRC 3 of the Japanese fighters actually fled the engagement.

A win is a win.

 

[GrauGeist]

The Hs129's armored bathtub and windscreen weighed over a ton and ranged from 1/4" to 1/2" in it's construction (windscreen was almost 3" thick).

So figure the P-39's 256 pounds of standard armor plus the alleged 750 pound belly armor would put it at roughly half the weight of the Hs129's armor.

That's a hell of alot of weight...

 

[fubar57]

What if you just removed all the pilots from the P-39s?

 

[SaparotRob]

What if you just removed all the pilots from the P-39s?

I never would have thought of that.

 

[Snautzer01]

What if you just removed all the pilots from the P-39s?

I think you have cracked it.

 

[special ed]

I remember Shomo and his wingman came across a flight, of I think Tonys, as a cerimony escort. It has been about 40 years since I read about it and I couldn't begin to find which book and verify my memory, but what stands out is his wingman landed first and was berated about his leader making repeated victory rolls.. He told those watching what happened and of his own victories and when asked why he had not made victory rolls of his own, he said that he had just checked out in the Mustang and was not sure how.

 

[glennasher]

I always wondered about Shomo's career. Retired a light colonel after 26 years and a MOH? He must have had a pretty lackluster or troubled career after his eventful flight in the Philippines that day. Something to think about, anyway.

 

[GrauGeist]

Interesting bit about Maj. Shomo, he started flying for the 5th AF in 1944, flying tactical recon missions (typically a P-39Q) but on 2 September 44, led a four ship armed recon mission in a P-40, the other three being P-39s. They hit bad weather and turned back and all three P-39s were lost (all MIA), he being the only one to return.
In October '44, he transitioned to the F-6D and on 10 January 45, he claimed his first kill.
It was 11 January 45 that was his landmark mission, he and his wingman being in F-6Ds on an armed PR mission when they bounced 11 KI-61s and one KI-44 escorting a G4M at 2,500 feet.
He scored six fighters and the Betty while his wingman scored three.

So Shomo's war total was eight enemy aircraft, none of which were in a P-39, even though he heaped high praise on it.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Here is what I take from this:

Joe Blow Pilot who actually flew the plane < Armchair pilot who has shown he cannot read simple charts

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I remember Shomo and his wingman came across a flight, of I think Tonys, as a cerimony escort. It has been about 40 years since I read about it and I couldn't begin to find which book and verify my memory, but what stands out is his wingman landed first and was berated about his leader making repeated victory rolls.. He told those watching what happened and of his own victories and when asked why he had not made victory rolls of his own, he said that he had just checked out in the Mustang and was not sure how.

I believe one Tojo was in the flight - maybe the instructor or senior pilot?

 

[Shortround6]

The weight could be a typo, steel armor weighs 40lbs per sq ft for a 1 in thickness.
750lbs is 18.75 sq ft of 1 in armor. Or 37.5 sq ft of 1/2 in armor, adjust as you see fit but something seems off.

 

[pbehn]

I think the whole thing is a based on a typo or a deliberate mis quote/ omission to make a better story.

 

[GrauGeist]

75 pounds would certainly be more realistic.

 

[pbehn]

75 pounds would certainly be more realistic.

And back in the mists of time I have a sort of memory that totalled up all the weight reductions, fuel cells, guns, ammo, armour etc that were also about 750Lbs, of which some could have been belly armour. From the drawing posted, if that weighed 750LBs it must have been inch thick steel at least.