Groundhog Thread Part Deux - P-39 Fantasy and Fetish - The Never Ending Story (Mods take no responsibility for head against wall injuries sustained)

[tyrodtom]

Speaking of stripping off armour, I found this here. The P-39 Airacobra - Warfare History Network

"Nothing could touch a P-39 used below 15,000-feet" contended American Air Ace Lt. Col. William A. Shomo who flew P-39s, P-40s, F-6Ds, and a P-51D in WWII. He wouldn't have hesitated to have even taken on the vaunted P-38 at lower altitudes because of the extreme maneuverability of the "Flying Cannon." And it could tangle successfully with a Japanese Zero, he argued, if the American pilot kept his airspeed at 300 miles per hour or better so the enemy "couldn't turn inside you."

The Americans in the field experimented with the aircraft throughout the war to continually gain an edge and some additional speed, eventually stripping off a chunk of belly armor under the seat that weighed some 750 pounds. With those modifications, the P-39 could "fly like a bumble bee," asserted Shomo. He and his men especially liked the stinging power of the plane's 37mm cannon that could, if necessary, fire off some 30 rounds in 12 seconds. The hefty warhead had a definite arching trajectory, but one could eventually learn to "drop the shell right into someone's shirt pocket as he walked along the beach," said the ace."

the il-2 had a 1500 lb armored tub around the cockpit and engine area. doesn't 750 lbs just under the P-39's seat sound a little doubtful ?
this thread does seem haunted by misprints.

 

[GrauGeist]

We actually have a thread here on the forum where a member had various P-39 armor pieces in his collection, plus there is a posted chart with with weights, measures and placement by variant.

It appears the total average weight for a P-39's armor was roughly 256 pounds.

See it here:
P-39 Airacobra armor

 

[BiffF15]

So what does overnighting on the floor of Laguardia qualify me as?

A survivor. Don't be afraid of COVID 19 after that experience.

The old terminal was like a third world single wide trailer inside with garbage cans to catch rainwater.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

A survivor. Don't be afraid of COVID 19 after that experience.

The old terminal was like a third world single wide trailer inside with garbage cans to catch rainwater.

I will not lie. Once the last bar in the terminal closed it was a terrible experience.

 

[GregP]

Hey Der Adler. It is about 80 miles or 1.5 hours or so, not during rush hours.

I'd love to get a visit, and you could stay at my house, if need be, overnight. I'm about 2 - 3 miles from Chino airport.

We could see MANY warbirds, have some B-B-Q, and quaff a few beers, in no particular order.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Hey Der Adler. It is about 80 miles or 1.5 hours or so, not during rush hours.

I'd love to get a visit, and you could stay at my house, if need be, overnight. I'm about 2 - 3 miles from Chino airport.

We could see MANY warbirds, have some B-B-Q, and quaff a few beers, in no particular order.

PM sent.

 

[Greg Boeser]

FlyboyJ,
Cool. Thanks for the tip.

 

[XBe02Drvr]

So what does overnighting on the floor of Laguardia qualify me as?

A doormat.

 

[XBe02Drvr]

The old terminal was like a third world single wide trailer inside with garbage cans to catch rainwater.

So what's the "new" terminal like? My memories are all of the 3rd world single wide.

 

[BiffF15]

So what's the "new" terminal like? My memories are all of the 3rd world single wide.

It's a very nice terminal now. High ceilings, lots of food choice, bars (most still closed) but a vast improvement. It does follow the newer configuration of the security flow dumping you into the shopping area.

 

[XBe02Drvr]

It's a very nice terminal now. High ceilings, lots of food choice, bars (most still closed) but a vast improvement. It does follow the newer configuration of the security flow dumping you into the shopping area.

Last time I was there was in 2017 when Kathleen checked out on retirement day. Construction in progress and we walked through a rabbit warren maze of passageways to various AA offices and ops spaces, many looking like they were temporary. Glad they made something nice of it. Now if they could just fix the airside.

 

[SaparotRob]

Any consideration of extending the flight deck of U.S.S. LaGuardia?

 

[XBe02Drvr]

Any consideration of extending the flight deck of U.S.S. LaGuardia?

Hell yes! All you'd have to do is fill in Flushing Bay, fill and channelize the East River all the way to the Throgs Neck, extend parallel causeways to Riker's Island, move the prisons out to Hart Island, and relocate all the housing from College Point, and you could have JFK North. No sweat, piece of cake. Robert Moses and Fiorello LaGuardia would be so proud!
NY TRACON would have a heart attack.

 

[P-39 Expert]

Speaking of stripping off armour, I found this here. The P-39 Airacobra - Warfare History Network

"Nothing could touch a P-39 used below 15,000-feet" contended American Air Ace Lt. Col. William A. Shomo who flew P-39s, P-40s, F-6Ds, and a P-51D in WWII. He wouldn't have hesitated to have even taken on the vaunted P-38 at lower altitudes because of the extreme maneuverability of the "Flying Cannon." And it could tangle successfully with a Japanese Zero, he argued, if the American pilot kept his airspeed at 300 miles per hour or better so the enemy "couldn't turn inside you."

The Americans in the field experimented with the aircraft throughout the war to continually gain an edge and some additional speed, eventually stripping off a chunk of belly armor under the seat that weighed some 750 pounds. With those modifications, the P-39 could "fly like a bumble bee," asserted Shomo. He and his men especially liked the stinging power of the plane's 37mm cannon that could, if necessary, fire off some 30 rounds in 12 seconds. The hefty warhead had a definite arching trajectory, but one could eventually learn to "drop the shell right into someone's shirt pocket as he walked along the beach," said the ace."

I have read about this 750lb piece of armor before but never seen it listed in any weight table. That's a lot of weight, equivalent to a 110gal drop tank full of fuel. The effect on performance must have been huge. I really doubt these actually existed.

 

[wuzak]

It looks like we were all so wrong about the P-39, it dominated German fighters, as shown in this documentary

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I have read about this 750lb piece of armor before but never seen it listed in any weight table. That's a lot of weight, equivalent to a 110gal drop tank full of fuel. The effect on performance must have been huge. I really doubt these actually existed.

So the person interviewed, Lt. Col. William A. Shomo, a 26 year Air Force veteran, Medal of Honor Winner (with 6 kills in one mission) with several thousand flight hours in various combat aircraft (to include the P-39) is just making this up?!?!? But you "read" about this?????

 

[ThomasP]

I have read that the additional belly armour was only fitted in the recon model. It was made of aluminum, and IIRC it was about 3' x 4' and weighed 75 lbs. Also IIRC it was located about where the outline shows it in the image below.

edit: added the image below

 

[P-39 Expert]

So the person interviewed, Lt. Col. William A. Shomo, a 26 year Air Force veteran, Medal of Honor Winner (with 6 kills in one mission) with several thousand flight hours in various combat aircraft (to include the P-39) is just making this up?!?!? But you "read" about this?????

View attachment 637920

So show me the 750lb piece of armor. All the rest of the armor on the plane weighed about 250lbs. Didn't say Shomo was incorrect. The writer may have been mistaken.

 

[drgondog]

Speaking of stripping off armour, I found this here. The P-39 Airacobra - Warfare History Network

"Nothing could touch a P-39 used below 15,000-feet" contended American Air Ace Lt. Col. William A. Shomo who flew P-39s, P-40s, F-6Ds, and a P-51D in WWII. He wouldn't have hesitated to have even taken on the vaunted P-38 at lower altitudes because of the extreme maneuverability of the "Flying Cannon." And it could tangle successfully with a Japanese Zero, he argued, if the American pilot kept his airspeed at 300 miles per hour or better so the enemy "couldn't turn inside you."

The Americans in the field experimented with the aircraft throughout the war to continually gain an edge and some additional speed, eventually stripping off a chunk of belly armor under the seat that weighed some 750 pounds. With those modifications, the P-39 could "fly like a bumble bee," asserted Shomo. He and his men especially liked the stinging power of the plane's 37mm cannon that could, if necessary, fire off some 30 rounds in 12 seconds. The hefty warhead had a definite arching trajectory, but one could eventually learn to "drop the shell right into someone's shirt pocket as he walked along the beach," said the ace."

And yet Shomo flew P-39Qs for a year with zero VC. All his scores came flying the F-6D (7 total. 6 in one mission). I'm wondering where he developed his successful engagement skills versus the Zero.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

So show me the 750lb piece of armor. All the rest of the armor on the plane weighed about 250lbs.

I'd be willing to bet "750" lbs is a typo for 75 lbs.