Oops - was I too harsh on the American's passion for nasty beer?
My apologies!
Oh that part was partially accurate.
Groundhog Thread v. 2.0 - The most important battle of WW2
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Oh that part was partially accurate.
As per the link I posted the debate on Norway turned into a vote of no confidence, having lost a no confidence vote Chamberlain dosnt appoint a successor, in fact also as per the link that was the end of the National government, Churchill formed a coalition.
buffnut453
Captain
And Churchill was uniquely positioned because he'd previously flip-flopped between Conservative and Labour parties. He wasn't really liked or trusted by anyone in Parliament but he was at least a compromise that both sides could agree on.
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
Senior moment. Posted in error.
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Thumpalumpacus
Major
Nuance is more difficult to address, and to some people it's actually frightening. It also requires thinking, and raises the possibility of being -- gasp -- wrong.
Wrong : Chamberlain remained de facto PM in a National Government ;there was no National Government before May 1940 .Chamberlain could have vetoed the nomination of Churchill as PM . Without the support of Chamberlain, Winston had no majority .That's why Churchill appointed Chamberlain Lord President of the Council in the new government and why he was very obsequious to Neville ,who remained party leader til October 1940 .
Those who criticized the government about Norway were not partisans of Churchill.
Besides :Chamberlain conserved his majority : 281 against 240 .
buffnut453
Captain
You could also say that Churchill depended on Attlee, who also could have vetoed the nomination of Churchill, to remain in power. and It was Attlee as much as Chamberlain who "made" Winston the PM. But wait, there's more. Churchill made Attlee the Deputy PM. Has all the hallmarks of an Attlee-led conspiracy, if you ask me (and, yes, that latter part was sarcasm).
There was Chamberlain's War ministry which included a war cabinet. Chamberlain war ministry - Wikipedia. Obsequious is not the term I would use, Churchill knew he was a very sick man, close to death. In that age, people from different parties did respect each other even if they didnt agree with them.
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bdefen
Senior Airman
Any battles in the Pacific applicable here? Or is this a strictly ETO question?
It is a question, what would be your 5 most important?
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
Midway was mentioned.
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
Were only it were true today.
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bdefen
Senior Airman
Battle of Britain, Midway, Stalingrad, Normandy, Kursk
I hadn't seen that Midway had been mentioned.
I hadn't seen that Midway had been mentioned.
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
I hadn't actually checked but I "fat fingered" the reply button accidentally. I'm on my iPhone.
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There are rules of behaviour and address in the British house of commons. A member or former member of the privy council is referred to as "right honourable" other MPs being "honourable member". All Prime ministers are automatically a member of the Privy council and so are "right honourable" for the rest of their time in Parliament.
It was Churchill who asked Chamberlain to become a member of the war cabinet, because otherwise Chamberlain could be very dangerous .
Churchill defended Chamberlain during the Norway debate .
And that politicians respected those who had other opinions?
Who wrote : Guilty men ?
Who said before the war that Churchill was a crypto fascist ?
Who said during the 1945 elections that Labour would impose a Marxist dictatorship ?
Lloyd George attacked Neville Chamberlain personally .
Winston said in November 1940 when the LW had attacked the factories of Baldwin : the Germans are ungrateful.
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Churchill hoped that he could look after the home front as it was called, it was Chamberlain who got Churchill in as first sea lord. I have no idea where you are going with this or why. At his funeral Churchill was a pall bearer and gave a eulogy. They may have been political rivals, they were both patriots. Churchill had enough experience by then to know he couldnt do everything himself, Chamberlain would have been a good choice to look after the home front.
Attlee became deputy PM because otherwise Labour would not be in the war cabinet Nothing for free ..And Attlee accepted Churchill because the alternative was Halifax .
Chamberlain was to ill to remain PM .
That is your thought of the day, yet more baseless conspiracy theory, I really cant be bothered anymore. Now you know he was ill, you weave it into your tale, he wasnt ill at the time that he was replaced, not that anyone knew anyway it wasnt until July when he had surgery that his terminal condition was known,
From Wiki "Chamberlain had long enjoyed excellent health, except for occasional attacks of gout,[63] but by July 1940 he was in almost constant pain. He sought treatment, and later that month entered hospital for surgery. Surgeons discovered that he was suffering from terminal bowel cancer, but they concealed it from him, instead telling him that he would not require further surgery.[212] Chamberlain resumed work in mid-August. He returned to his office on 9 September, but renewed pain, compounded by the night-time bombing of London which forced him to go to an air raid shelter and denied him rest, sapped his energy, and he left London for the last time on 19 September, returning to Highfield Park in Heckfield.[213] Chamberlain offered his resignation to Churchill on 22 September 1940. The Prime Minister was initially reluctant to accept, but as both men realised that Chamberlain would never return to work, Churchill finally allowed him to resign. "
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Thumpalumpacus
Major
I suspect Chamberlain was ousted because the contrast between his "Hitler missed the bus" comment and the Allies being hustled out of Norway made him look out of touch.
Amery's "Speak for England, Arthur!" outburst, and his speech in Commons attacking the Chamberlain government's prosecution of the war, seem to be pretty important in giving voice to the misgivings Parliament had concerning Chamberlain's leadership.
Churchill on assuming office had a coalition to lead, and he had to mollify its constituent parties. Compromise, especially in coalition politics, is a fact on the ground, and it is no criticism to say so. He likely kept Chamberlain in an official position 1) out of respect for the man, whom Churchill lauded in his memoirs when he could have thrown NC under the bus; and 2) because in June of 1940 what the UK needed more than anything, outside of more fighters and heavy weaponry for defense against invasion, was unity. That political exile for Chamberlain would perhaps work to undermine the drive for unity (in Churchill's view) is my guess.
So -- I suspect that Chamberlain was ousted over dissatisfaction with the state of the war at the time; and I suspect he was retained in government because he still had contributions to make, including helping to weld over any potential political fractures that might undermine the ongoing efforts.
I know very little about Attlee and cannot offer any useful comments on his status.
Amery's "Speak for England, Arthur!" outburst, and his speech in Commons attacking the Chamberlain government's prosecution of the war, seem to be pretty important in giving voice to the misgivings Parliament had concerning Chamberlain's leadership.
Churchill on assuming office had a coalition to lead, and he had to mollify its constituent parties. Compromise, especially in coalition politics, is a fact on the ground, and it is no criticism to say so. He likely kept Chamberlain in an official position 1) out of respect for the man, whom Churchill lauded in his memoirs when he could have thrown NC under the bus; and 2) because in June of 1940 what the UK needed more than anything, outside of more fighters and heavy weaponry for defense against invasion, was unity. That political exile for Chamberlain would perhaps work to undermine the drive for unity (in Churchill's view) is my guess.
So -- I suspect that Chamberlain was ousted over dissatisfaction with the state of the war at the time; and I suspect he was retained in government because he still had contributions to make, including helping to weld over any potential political fractures that might undermine the ongoing efforts.
I know very little about Attlee and cannot offer any useful comments on his status.
