FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
True Matt, but if you bend one of these aircraft those are the numbers the Feds are going to be looking at...
Hamburg - A320 nearly crashed during crosswind approach
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Matt308
Glock Perfection
Not necessarily. If those maximums are not part of AFM Sect 3, Operating Limitations, then they become an operating curriculum per Part 121 whose enforcement is much more fuzzy from a regulatory perspective. As you probably are well aware, this is where the special interest groups like ALPA and IFALPA quickly come into play with lawyers and their interpretations.
I rather doubt that the AFM states "crosswinds of X speed/direction are prohibited".
I rather doubt that the AFM states "crosswinds of X speed/direction are prohibited".
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
But I could almost bet you that a 121 operator will state a max crosswind component in their ops manual that will have to be approved by the Feds. If it's exceeded and the landing comes out OK I'm sure there's some kind of self-disclosure that could be turned in. It it's exceeded and you scrape the wingtips and wind up on youtube I'm sure you're going to be talking to someone.
I'll ask my father in law. He was a standards captain and was checked out in the A319/320. Today he's doing sim work at CAE and is an examiner.
Don't know how the German Civil Aeronautic Authority will handle this one.
ccheese
Member In Perpetuity
They made a very big deal about it, this morning, on Good Morning America.
Must'a showed the film clip a dozen times.... interviewed passengers, etc.
Charles
Must'a showed the film clip a dozen times.... interviewed passengers, etc.
Charles
Parmigiano
Senior Airman
Maybe there was no pilot error about wind limit: if the wind force increased sharply when he was on finals he may have taken the right decision to attempt a landing when wind was whithin cleared parameters and had to face an emergency when force changed and he was too 'low and slow' to abort landing quickly.
I think this behemoths have a slow pick up time, if you are on finals and you apply full power probably you still need several seconds to wait for energy before attempting to climb.
More in this case when he had to work hard with rudder and aileron to counter the wind, so wasting a lot of energy.
I think this behemoths have a slow pick up time, if you are on finals and you apply full power probably you still need several seconds to wait for energy before attempting to climb.
More in this case when he had to work hard with rudder and aileron to counter the wind, so wasting a lot of energy.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Parm, I think that would be the case if there was no damage but he did clip the wingtip and I'm almost wiling to guess that between the damage to the wingtip and inspection time of the airframe you're talking over $20,000 - in the US that's reportable to the NTSB. I don't know how the JAA would see this but I do know they are basically in unison with a lot of operator related issues like this.
pbfoot
1st Lieutenant
was he flying it manually or was the autopilot
Snautzer01
Honourably banned
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- Mar 26, 2007
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Interesting....
seesul
Senior Master Sergeant
interesting article, thank you Snautzer! there´s written (and they say) that under such a conditions the captain should take over the control. why the landing was done by young co-pilot, no one knows till now...
Glider
Captain
I admit that was the last thing that I would have expected
Snautzer01
Honourably banned
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- Mar 26, 2007
i think the captain decides who will land the plane. he or the co-pilot. All the rest is advice.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
I spoke to my father in law yesterday. He was a United Airlines Standards Captain and is currently an FAA Examiner for the 737 and A319/320. He is currently doing contract work for Flight Safety. He told me the numbers I posted were wrong and the actual max crosswind component for the A319/ 320 was 33kts with peak gusts to 37kts. If a pilot exceeded that they violated the ops manual from Airbus. Most airlines use LOWER crosswind components.
When asked about the clip he told me he didn't see it but heard others talking about it. His comment was "why did they even try to land there?" He thinks they should have diverted if possible. During his last few months at United he told me he did get an A319 into Anchorage with a 35 knot crosswind. Another trip the component was over 50 knots so he diverted.
The fact that the crew damaged the aircraft does not constitute them doing a "good job" in getting the aircraft down, especially if they could have diverted. In accordance with the JARs they should have had enough fuel to divert.
BTW he retired from United with 15 years and 19,000 hours...
When asked about the clip he told me he didn't see it but heard others talking about it. His comment was "why did they even try to land there?" He thinks they should have diverted if possible. During his last few months at United he told me he did get an A319 into Anchorage with a 35 knot crosswind. Another trip the component was over 50 knots so he diverted.
The fact that the crew damaged the aircraft does not constitute them doing a "good job" in getting the aircraft down, especially if they could have diverted. In accordance with the JARs they should have had enough fuel to divert.
BTW he retired from United with 15 years and 19,000 hours...
Glider
Captain
I have little doubt that there will be some type of investigation which I hope will be published.
I was half expecting a queue of Lawyers forming to claim for stress iro the passengers
I was half expecting a queue of Lawyers forming to claim for stress iro the passengers
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Agree.....
Just got done watching something about this on Stern TV on German TV. They interviewed 2 of the passengers. Was kind of interesting hearing what it felt like in the back.
The usual from the airline however, they will not say anything until the investigation is over.
The usual from the airline however, they will not say anything until the investigation is over.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
You do have a point....
Matt308
Glock Perfection
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