Hans Dammers Bf 109G-4 w.nr.19526 => which unit ???

[le_steph40]

Hello,

I recently bought a very beautiful/colorful decal sheet where we can find the famous Bf 109G-4 flown by Hans Dammers (Black 10).

I looked for this since a long time but I'm a little surprised...
The description indicates: w.nr.19526 "black 10" 7(jabo)./JG52, Taman, August 1943. At the moment of his 100 victories, on 5/5/1943 Hans Dammers was a member of 7./JG52 (not jabo) but a short time after these victories, Dammers was transfered in Jagdgruppe Ost at Saint Jean D'Angely in South West of France. So, the real Bf 109G-4 "black 10" belonging to 7./JG52 was w.nr.19446 and was flown by Lt Hans Markhoff until 6 May 1943.
Look at the photos below

First: the balkenkreuz are apparently not the same on the wings. The one on the port side is black, not the other. It's probably a replacement.
Second: on the first photo, no trace of yellow marking around the fuselage.
I looked for photos of the Taman airfield in 1943 to try to identify the buildings but no success. My opinion is that the photos were taken in France before his accident on 23 July 1943. We can see in the background of the first photo another Bf 109 wearing "black 14".
I think to build the Bf 109G-4 w.nr.19526 flown by Hans Dammers from the photos known, the "black 10" from the decal sheet seems credible but without the East Front markings. But I don't know if we can keep the 7./JG52 markings (emblems under the cockpit and on the cowl) ??? May be, the pilots kept their unit markings in reserve units ?
Infos here (in German)
Traditionsgemeinschaft Jagdgeschwader 52 » Dammers, Hans

Any advice to help me please ?
TIA, regards
Steph

 

[le_steph40]

Anybody to help me ?
Stona ?

 

[fubar57]

I get home tomorrow morning, Steph. I'll start looking then

 

[fubar57]

Just a quick update before bed. According to the Osprey book, "Jagdgeschwadwer 52", your third photo was taken in May '43 and he was serving with 9./JG 52

 

[stona]

Dammers was an instructor at 2./JGr. Ost when he had his accident. Note the aircraft type.

"Bf 109F-2 6811 Dammer, Ofw. Hans JGr.Ost 23-Jul-43 Injured in crash due to accidentally hitting the ground. Overturned. Fl.Pl. Laleu 70% "

From the Gen.Qu. loss lists. 'Dammer' is definitely Dammers, it is just one of the myriad of typos and transcription errors in these records.

I don't think those photographs were taken in France.

JGr. Ost transferred to France at the end of September/early October 1942 (Chris Goss has the unit's the first recorded casualty in France as a ground crewman on 5th October '42), at which time Dammers was still with 7./JG 52. I don't think whatever aircraft he was flying with JG 52 accompanied him to France. This was a transfer of personnel, not an entire unit. Why he was being taken away from the front and redeployed in a training role might be an interesting question. He had been on active service for almost two years and may have needed a rest.

It is my opinion that if you want to model that aircraft, as it was after he had achieved his 100th victory, then it would be in the East and as part of 7./JG 52, and I would expect it to wear that units emblem(s). All Dammers' victories were with 7./JG 52 except the last two, on his return to active service, with 9./JG 52.

Cheers

Steve

 

[stona]

Just a quick update before bed. According to the Osprey book, "Jagdgeschwadwer 52", your third photo was taken in May '43 and he was serving with 9./JG 52

I don't think that is correct. From everything I've read, he was assigned to 9./JG 52 on his return to active service (following the accident in France) in January 1944.

His last two victories (with 9./JG 52) were on 12th and 13th March 1944. The final victory was fatal for Dammers. Accounts vary but he collided with, or was rammed by, an La-5. He managed to bail out and either his parachute became entangled with one of the aircraft (which I would have thought would be almost immediately fatal) or he was shot in his parachute. Whatever happened he died of his wounds/injuries on the 17th March.

Cheers

Steve

 

[fubar57]

You're more than likely correct Steve, I just throw out what I find and let those who are better versed on the subject "Yea or nay" it. How accurate are the "Luftwaffe Officer Career Summary volumes? I found the about Dammers...

 

[le_steph40]

Hello,
Just a correction: the real Bf 109G-4 "black 10" w.nr.19446 which was flown by Lt Hans Markhoff until 6 May 1943. was from 8./JG52, not 7./JG52, sorry.
On this webpage Traditionsgemeinschaft Jagdgeschwader 52 » Dammers, Hans, it's explained that the photo was taken during Dammers was in Jagdgruppe Ost (2./JGr.Ost)... It seems logical if we look at the buildings. Taman which was the airfield of III./JG52 until July 1943 was most probably a front airfield with not as many buildings. There no trace of yellow painting around the fuselage, which makes me say that it's probably not on the Eastern front.
Other thing that I observe on the photos above: no trace visible of antenna wire close to the tail like a Bf 109G-4... May be a Bf 109F (Bf 109F-2 w.nr.6711 ?) or G-2 which could explain the black inner of the balkenkreuz on the port wing.

 

[Wurger]

Other thing that I observe on the photos above: no trace visible of antenna wire close to the tail like a Bf 109G-4... May be a Bf 109F (Bf 109F-2 w.nr.6711 ?) or G-2 which could explain the black inner of the balkenkreuz on the port wing.

The antenna mount can be noticed in both images. Although the antenna wire isn't seen fully in the first shot but the mount there suggests it was attached though. In the second image the mount with the insulator and a piece of antenna wire can be noticed with no problem.
Also, I would say both of the pictures were taken at the same airfield. Perhaps the time could be different but the same airfield IMHO.

 

[le_steph40]

Wojtek, Sorry, I misspoke. I'm talking about the part that goes from wire to fuselage

 

[Wurger]

Oh I see now. It is possible the wire is outside of the frame. So a F or a G-2 kite could be.

 

[stona]

How accurate are the "Luftwaffe Officer Career Summary volumes? I found the about Dammers...

Generally pretty good and some sources (Bergstrom for one) do have him with 9./JG 52 at the time of the award of the Ritterkreuz.
Cheers
Steve

 

[stona]

The picture with Dammers leaning on the rudder is one I have in one of the old Ries/Obermaier volumes (Luftwaffe Rudder Markings 1936-1945, in English). It was just a matter of finding it.

It is captioned:

"Dammers, Hans 7./JG 52 Bf 109 F Bjelgorod/Ostfr. Mai 1943."

These propaganda photographs (no sign of Dammers' flying gear) were usually taken close to the date of a significant mile stone, as in 100 victories, or important award.

Captions can be wrong and this is not proof either way. Unfortunately I do not know the source of Ries/Obermaier's information.

Bjelgorod/Belgorod was certainly not some kind of front line airstrip, it is still a commercial airport today.

Cheers

Steve

 

[fubar57]

Steve, not sure if you are aware of the updated versions of the 2016 Officer Summaries but they can be found here....

Luftwaffe Officer Career Summaries

 

[le_steph40]

Hello,
For those interested, I resume the continuation of this conversation to bring the results of my research after more 3 years...
Hans Dammers as a member instructor of 2./Ost (formerly 2./JGr.Ost ) strikes a pose next to his Bf 109F-2, Wnr.6711 "black 3". Photo very probably taken at Laleu-La Rochelle circa June-July 1943 (before his accident 23 Jul. 1943).

 

[Wayne Little]

Hi Steph, most interesting, where did you come across this info?

W.Nr.6711 was formerly flown by Adolf Galland in November 1941.

 

[le_steph40]

Hi Steph, most interesting, where did you come across this info?

W.Nr.6711 was formerly flown by Adolf Galland in November 1941.

Oops, sorry Wayne, typo: I meant wnr.6811.
Bf109F-2, WNr.6811, DAMMERS, Ofw. Hans, 2./JGrOst, , , 23-Jul-43, Injured in crash due to accidently striking the ground. Overturned., Lfl.3/FR, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #11)-Vol.19; Salonen via TOCH on 29-Apr-14, Fl.Pl. La Leu, 70%, H

 

[Wayne Little]

Ah..! all good..

 

[daHeld]

What I find strange is how little research often is done by the decal companies. I mean, come on, that a 7th squadron in a three-squadron Gruppe always bore white numbers should be common knowledge by now, shouldn't it?