Hawker Hurricane XIIb

[Micdrow]

I ran into this profile and thought well maybe it was a fake. But then I found this photo of the aircraft. It looks like a normal two seater hurricane but instead of having a secondary pilot its set up for a gunner.

Question is was these used as fighter's or where they used for ground attack aircraft with a rear gunner?

Thanks in advance.

 

[amrit]

I thought all the Soviet conversions to tandems were for training (which they did themselves) - the open second cockpit with MGs may have been for AG training.

 

[Micdrow]

I thought all the Soviet conversions to tandems were for training (which they did themselves) - the open second cockpit with MGs may have been for AG training.

Very possible, but was thinking that the russians were in need of good fighters in the beginning that it would be such a waste of a good fighter to use as a gunnery trainer. I would think it would be of better use by keeping it as a fighter or pilot fighter trainer.

 

[amrit]

The Soviets had mixed feelings about the Hurricanes and Spitfires they received - but they did receive 2000 and 1000 of each respectively.

There's no mention of the tandems here, but it's an interesting read:

RAF Hurricanes in Russia

On another forum, a member has been trying to establish more details of the tandem conversions, but it seems to be agreed that 20 or so were done for training.

 

[Micdrow]

Interesting read amrit, according to that web site if I read it right that they recieved 3000 hurricanes. With that many I can see why they had a few for training.

Thanks

Although I got to say I still would have throught that it would have been easier to convert other aircraft for the same roll. At least for gunnery practice.

 

[Wurger]

In many books on Hurricane I've found that Russians rebuilt several Mk.II for two seats but there haven't been stated what for. It seems that the kind of rebuilding was made not in Ryssia only.
There is a pic of Iranian dual control Hurri I've found in TBU no.132

 

[amrit]

Sorry Micdrow, sausage fingers.

And I've seen references to the Soviets converting a number of types to tandem types - all reference appear to be for training purposes. As to your picture, I wonder whether they'd seen details of the Hawker Henley, or even the Hotspur, and were trying it out for themselves? Can I ask where the pictures came from?

The Iranian tandems were supplied officially by the RAF ( I think two were supplied).

 

[Micdrow]

The pictures came from a book called Hawker Hurricane by monografie. Issue 52. Cant read any of it but has some interesting pictures.

 

[Micdrow]

Couple of more pictures in the book

 

[amrit]

The tandem pictures are interesting because the Iranians found the open second cockpit a problem and decided to enclose them. I can't find a photography but here's a silhouette.

Could you scan the captions for your first pictures? I'll try to use a polish translator.

 

[Micdrow]

Will scan the captions. But for now here are a couple of more pictures from the Hawker Hurricane Aircam series book

 

[amrit]

Those books look sweet - great photographs. I've just checked out their website (looks like I'll be maxing out my CC again!).

 

[Micdrow]

Here are the two captions, First one is for the black and white picture. Second one is the profile caption.

 

[amrit]

The second caption basicly states that it's a two seater, back shooting, probably about 1942.

However, I've discovered on another forum that BW948 was an artillery spotter.

Will work on the first caption later - transcribing polish is tricky.

 

[Micdrow]

The second caption basicly states that it's a two seater, back shooting, probably about 1942.

However, I've discovered on another forum that BW948 was an artillery spotter.

Will work on the first caption later - transcribing polish is tricky.

Now thats interesting. Would explain why it had a rear facing gunner. Basically to watch and guard the rear while the pilot radioed in artillery. May I ask what Forum you read that from?

 

[amrit]

It's from Two seater Hurricane so don't take it as gospel but they've got the same picture posted up.

 

[Micdrow]

It's from Two seater Hurricane so don't take it as gospel but they've got the same picture posted up.

I wont, but it is interesting trying to figure it out. The rear facing gun is was I found interesting. Below another profile of a two seater. I will have to do some reading. I have a Hurricane II electrical and mechanical manual. Maybe it will shed some light but I think this is a soviet special like you said.

 

[amrit]

I have a Hurricane II electrical and mechanical manual. Maybe it will shed some light but I think this is a soviet special like you said.

Is that the RAF Museum Series book - with all the Mk II manuals? I've got that too, and as far as I can remember there isn't any info on this.

 

[Micdrow]

Is that the RAF Museum Series book - with all the Mk II manuals? I've got that too, and as far as I can remember there isn't any info on this.

Yes its the same book so guess thats out of the question. Wonder were else we could find more info.

 

[amrit]

I'm not holding my breath about getting too much information. Most of the decent hurricane sites mention the tandems - both to Iran and those adapted in Russia, but then state that information is limited. That really helps, doesn't it?

As to the first caption - a rough translation states (and I've tried to make it grammatical):

At the head (which I take to mean top of page or similar) is a very non-typical modification a Hurricane (Mk number etc) with back box (cockpit) for defence. Aircraft bear standard RAF paint for this period, top in grey-green - Canadian composite type 1941/42 Sky S. Hawker Hurricane as Mk X and Mk XI. They sent 107 for the ZSRS, but lost 13 on the way.

p.s. do you know about the Hurricane slip-wing; another strange conversion.