Hi everyone

[gterl]

Hey Bf109_g

interesting , looks like that mission was two nights after the 'famous' firestorm (27/28 July). 3.6% of the aircraft were lost out of 777 (11 Lanc's)....according to my books/memory (think...in July 43 alone, BC lost 250 a/c )
PFF Sqn's during July 43
156 (Wimpy -> Lancs)
109 (Mossie)
7 (Stirling -> Lancs)
83 (Lanc)
35 (Halibag)
405(RCAF, Halibag)
97 (Lanc)
1409 (MET Mossie)
105 (Mossie)
139 (Mossie)

So I guess your great-uncle flew either in 83, 97, or 156/7 sqn..... ??

regards

LEST WE FORGET!

 

[Bf109_g]

Hey gterl. Yep, he flew with 97 Squadron. He flew Lancaster B.Mk.III ED862, code "OF-P", and it was nicknamed "Spurius". It flew on a total of 11 missions before it was shot down.

 

[comiso90]

Welcome!

Did you ever notice that the Lancaster looks like the crate the the B-17 was shipped in?



.

 

[lucanus]

Howdy from lil old Texas - gterl 8)

 

[DOUGRD]

Welcome....and don't mind Les. Actually, he must like you. He only used 2 curse words.

Yeah!! And he almost spelled them right! Much better than the last new guy. I still can't figure out that one word he used. The translation from the original "SEAL" had something to do with an albino donkey, Herseys chocolate syrup and rubber sheets, I think?

 

[Njaco]

 

[DOUGRD]

Welcome gterl, enjoy the forum. Just read "The Bomber War" by Robin Neillands. Have you read it? So how do you see Sir Arthur Harris? Hero or fiend?

 

[gterl]

Hey DOUGRD

Well, Butch Harris is a rather difficult person to assess and a yes/no answer to your question wouldn't be fair IMHO.

My thoughts about Sir AH
At the end of WWII Bomber-Command and the C-in-C could look back on a period of remarkable achievements, sending a clear message to the allies (esp. Stalin) that Britain had opened successfully a second front in the air before D-Day. But the main prize, winning by bombing alone, was never achieved. Sir AH, an enlightened, but also single-minded commander, had proved to be the saviour of BC, conducting a campaign in the only way possible after the catastrophic Butt Report. Mindful of his experiences in WWI he stuck with his theory that the war could be won by bombing alone and without a land campaign (Somme, Paschendale, etc. as frightfull reminders what can happen). In fact BC itself was having its 'Paschendale' in the air and this fact was not recognised by him and the upper RAF hierarchy ...or knowingly ignored.
But going back to your question IMHO he was the right man at the right moment and the post-war government did an outrageous injustice to him and every member of BC (gunners, pilots, w/ops, etc. etc.) by not awarding a campaign medal.....period.

BTW I have his biography, written by H.Probert .....mhhhm somewhere ...maybe in the cellar

....you wanna know my thoughts on the bombing campaign overall? Because that's another story

let me know
rgds
gterl

 

[DOUGRD]

gterl, I like your answer and I agree with you 100% about Sir AH. He was the right man at the right time and I believe too that he and B.C. fought back with the only means available from 1940 thru Jun 1944, after that it was a task that required finishing. At the beginning of "The Bomber War" Mr. Neillands remarks that there is something of a controversy, I guess particularly in the U.K., concerning Sir AH's legacy and as you alluded to in your opening sentence with "Butcher Harris". Dresden and Hamburg being examples of the darker side of the campaign (the U.S.Army Air Corp being just as culpable) but all along the "moral question" was never far from the center of the discussion. In the end I feel Bomber Harris kept two facts ever at the fore front of his thoughts. 1) In the beginning Bomber Command was the only arrow in the quiver and (2) If you are engaged in a total war,as WW2 was, then you must be totally committed. If not you will surely perish. I think the free world has yet to realize the debt owed to Harris, Dowding, and Churchill.

 

[gterl]

Yup, I'm 100% with you!

And.....once again: Where's that Campaign Medal, or at least somme kind of recognition ??

...f*** politics (sorry, I'm not for strong language usually, but esp. this thing is outrageous)

 

[gterl]

comiso90,

...nope that's not the joke for the Lanc, but for the B-24

About jokes.....you know that story where veteran Halibag crews liked to shut off one engine (obviously feathering the prop) AND overtake Lanc's while on the way back to their bases.....now thats what I call 'cool'

 

[Lucky13]

"Welcome....and don't mind Les. Actually, he must like you. He only used 2 curse words."
True mate, and those were some of his less offensive ones, he must be in a good mood....

"No problem, I guess lesofprimus (or whatever his name is) is just an as***hole, may god bless him."
True as well. There's good and bad a**holes and I'd have to say that Minister of Whippedass is one of the good ones....

Welcome to the house of fun by the way or the cuckoo's nest as it's sometime reffered to....

 

[DOUGRD]

Welcome to the house of fun by the way or the cuckoo's nest as it's sometime reffered to....

That reminds me..... after raising four stepchildren I used to refer to our house as "The House Of Clocks" and that was because of all the cuckoo's who lived there.