How good was the soviet air force? (2 Viewers)

Snautzer01 · Tuesday at 3:48 PM

Texnuk said:
Slovak Prime Minister Robert Fico on a local TV and radio company - about a trip to Moscow for the 80th anniversary of Victory:

- Do you have any information about who, besides you, of the European leaders, will go to Moscow in May?

- I'm not one of those monkeys who thinks about whether someone will go or not. I'm not worried about whether someone will go or not. This is the 80th anniversary of the end of World War II and the victory over fascism.

- Aren't you worried about being there alone?

- Mr. Editor, what respect do we show these people? Where did this freedom come from in Slovakia? Did she come from Norway? Or from Africa? Or did she come from the West? After all, freedom came to Slovakia clearly from the east, and all the peoples who were part of the Red Army suffered incredibly.

- What kind of signal does this send to our society?

- I am sending a signal that I understand who played a decisive role in the Second World War. Without the former Soviet Union, Hitler would never have been defeated. This is the first one. And secondly, the Red Army played a decisive role in the liberation of the whole of Czechoslovakia. So why didn't you scream when I was at the Normandy anniversary? I went there and why didn't you ask me that question then? Why didn't you tell me then, Fico, what you were doing there? Well, of course, it's completely different for you.

Liberation of France took 2 years. The liberation of Czechoslovakia took until 1992. You do not seem to remember how it was there.

I was there before the wall went.

And please do not forget land lease again ( the basics as in plains train trucks fuel aluminium intelligentes etc etc etc) for wich without the panzers would have been parked on Красная площадь.
Our Russions friends make a habit of that.
It is true the soviets ( that is quite a bit more peoples then Russians) destroyed a good part of the beast.
It was never the plan that liberation came from the East.
Oh and why forgetting yank tanks and infanterie and airplanes in said territory...liberating stuff...

Dont know what you reasons are but historical they are not.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Tuesday at 6:36 PM

Mr. Fico should also remember that without the West and Lend Lease the Soviet forces may not have faired so well. Additionally without the Mediterranean and Western Front in 1943 and 1944, the German's could have concentrated many more forces and resources to the Eastern Front.

The defeat of Germany was a complete Allied effort, let's not forget that.

SaparotRob · Tuesday at 10:04 PM

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
Mr. Fico should also remember that without the West and Lend Lease the Soviet forces may not have faired so well. Additionally without the Mediterranean and Western Front in 1943 and 1944, the German's could have concentrated many more forces and resources to the Eastern Front.

The defeat of Germany was a complete Allied effort, let's not forget that.

If he said that, Fico wouldn't have received his payola.

Thumpalumpacus · Tuesday at 10:30 PM

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
Mr. Fico should also remember that without the West and Lend Lease the Soviet forces may not have faired so well. Additionally without the Mediterranean and Western Front in 1943 and 1944, the German's could have concentrated many more forces and resources to the Eastern Front.

The defeat of Germany was a complete Allied effort, let's not forget that.

Not sure how many T-34s would have been built without American steel for the armor or American aluminum for the engine-blocks. Nor 15 million pair of boots to shoe their army, nor deuce-and-a-halfs to truck them across Eastern Europe.

Don't get me wrong, the Soviets killed more Germans than the Brits and Americans. But they couldn't have done that without direct and material aid.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Tuesday at 11:23 PM

Agreed. I will never minimize the effort or sacrifice of the Red Army. The Soviets played a massive part. But all in all it took an "Allied Effort" to win the war.

Thumpalumpacus · Tuesday at 11:42 PM

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
Agreed. I will never minimize the effort or sacrifice of the Red Army. The Soviets played a massive part. But all in all it took an "Allied Effort" to win the war.

The Soviets soldiers undertook hardships not only from their enemy, but also from their command structure.

Pretty sure they were happy for the boots and tires and gasoline all the same.

bf109xxl · Wednesday at 7:24 AM

I'm curious, since when did the Slovak president's [anti-]historical views become a topic in a thread about Soviet aviation?

ThomasP · Wednesday at 8:38 AM

Possibly it could be moved to the World News and Events thread? Probably in the News thread?

bf109xxl · Wednesday at 8:50 AM

ThomasP said:
Possibly it could be moved...

...or simply deleted as an attempt of Russian political propaganda here.

ThomasP · Wednesday at 9:15 AM

I cannot say whether it was intended as Russian propaganda or not on the part of Texnuk (or on the part of Fico for that matter), but (I think) it is a newsworthy event.

Also, although I can see where the replies are coming from, we should not forget that the Soviets did destroy the majority of the German army and air force (I have seen many different numbers but they usually seem to hover around 70%) while taking huge losses (again the numbers vary a lot, but probably a minimum of around 8M-9M military personnel killed?) - said losses suffered by the US/UK/French in the ETO&MTO (~750,000 total military personnel killed?) seeming small in comparison.

I say all of the above in spite of the fact that I would cheerfully help with the removal of Putin (and any other parties responsible for the invasion of Ukraine) from this reality.

bf109xxl · Wednesday at 9:39 AM

ThomasP said:
I cannot say whether it was intended as Russian propaganda or not on the part of Texnuk (or on the part of Fico for that matter),

Certainly. It is a typical way of modern Russian propaganda to refer to the words of any weird West politicians (usually sponsored by Putin). What made Fico think anyone would forget something? Who gave him the right to insult European leaders? Moreover, many people still remember very well on whose side the Slovaks fought before 1943 (or even 1944) - as well as the Tiso laws under which Jews in Slovakia were sent to death camps.

ThomasP said:
but (I think) it is a newsworthy event.

May be.

ThomasP said:
Also, although I can see where the replies are coming from, we should not forget that the Soviets did destroy the majority of the German army and air force

Wehrmacht, not Luftwaffe.

ThomasP said:
(I have seen many different numbers but they usually seem to hover around 70%) while taking huge losses (again the numbers vary a lot, but probably a minimum of around 8M-9M military personnel?) - said losses suffered by the US/UK/French in the ETO&MTO (~750,000 total military personnel?) seeming small in comparison.

This is well known - at least, in Europe. It should be mentioned that the high Soviet casualties were partly due to abysmal command at all levels.

ThomasP said:
I say all of the above in spite of the fact that I would cheerfully help with the removal of Putin (and any other parties responsible for the invasion of Ukraine) from this reality.

Sometimes I think that any attempts to be impartial and objective only serve to infiltrate the most disgusting Russian propaganda.

ThomasP · Wednesday at 10:32 AM

re

bf109xxl said:
Sometimes I think that any attempts to be impartial and objective only serve to infiltrate the most disgusting Russian propaganda.

To a degree I agree , but to ignore the Soviet sacrifice in WWII is to demean that sacrifice to some extent, which is (I think) wrong - regardless of the current situation. The fact that some militaries were/are ineptly led (or even inept as individuals) does not change their level of sacrifice in the overall sense - or what point in the level of competence vs number of military personnel killed does it become proper to honor their sacrifice?

Thumpalumpacus · 2024-12-12T00:49:41-0500

ThomasP said:
re

To a degree I agree , but to ignore the Soviet sacrifice in WWII is to demean that sacrifice to some extent, which is (I think) wrong - regardless of the current situation. The fact that some militaries were/are ineptly led (or even inept as individuals) does not change their level of sacrifice in the overall sense - or what point in the level of competence vs number of military personnel killed does it become proper to honor their sacrifice?

I don't think anyone should disparage the Soviet soldier. They were as shit-bound as Japanese or USMC troops and in many cases just as hellbound.

BiffF15 · 2024-12-12T14:52:37-0500

Thumpalumpacus said:
I don't think anyone should disparage the Soviet soldier. They were as shit-bound as Japanese or USMC troops and in many cases just as hellbound.

Thump,
I don't disparage any of them. The common soldier has no choice about going to war. That is unfortunately done by someone who usually has never had skin in that game.
Cheers,
Biff

Thumpalumpacus · 2024-12-12T15:09:50-0500

BiffF15 said:
Thump,
I don't disparage any of them. The common soldier has no choice about going to war. That is unfortunately done by someone who usually has never had skin in that game.
Cheers,
Biff

Right. Further to that, Soviet soldiers were noted for their fighting ability, by the Germans, no less.

How good was the soviet air force? (2 Viewers)

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