I am repairing the Kelly Gang Halifax for a friend.

Tony Hill · Mar 16, 2011

What a fantastic project!!

Congrats and I'm sure the old soldier will love it!!

One puzzle...the "Kelly Gang" plus 8 1/4 ?? Am I missing something? If not, and this is a mystery...does anyone know what teh 8 1/4 means?

N4521U · Mar 16, 2011

Tony Hill said:
What a fantastic project!!

Congrats and I'm sure the old soldier will love it!!

One puzzle...the "Kelly Gang" plus 8 1/4 ?? Am I missing something? If not, and this is a mystery...does anyone know what teh 8 1/4 means?

Thanks for that. It's been a fun repair. Peter has been a good friend to me for the past 6 or 7 years I've been in Australia. I've been here 10 now.
But I don't see where the 8 1/4 is in my thread. Reply to it in quotes.

Tony Hill · Mar 16, 2011

Sorry, should have made myself more clear

In the Nose Art, it says Kelly Gang rides Again ! " + 8 1/4"

Darryl

Airframes · Mar 16, 2011

Bill, the Airfix figure set contains various poses of air and ground crew, and, if not available, is also issued under the Heller label. Revell also do a box set of similar figures, and vehicles can be converted from the Airfix range of 1/76 scale airfield or military trucks. Not quite the right scale, but close enough.

N4521U · Mar 16, 2011

Sorry Darryl, hadn't looked that closely at the nose art. As for the 8-1/4, we would have to ask Peter's dad, or the crewman who actually painted the model, and unfortunately both are long gone. I will ask Peter if he has any idea.

N4521U · Mar 17, 2011

OK, here's what I am finding for my mini diorama dilemma...
Airfix as above...... But looks like a pilot jumping out of the way of a red bellied black snake..... this okay cuz I might do a flat out diorama. personnel truck, fuel truck, bomb loaders.
Revell ...... but I can't find a picture of the parts themselves..... how many pilots/crew????
Fuel truck.... Hasegawa 1/72 (20mm) GMC Gasoline Tanker Truck.... wouldn't a Ford be ok?
Personnel truck..... IBG Models 1/72 Bedford QLT 3ton 4x4 Troop Truck
Tractor to tow the bomb trailers.... there is a little Fordson somewhere I've seen

So, now how about bomb trailers......... tow motor......... in 1/72nd scale? I am looking but not finding.

I painted the undersides this morning, flat black, and the masking on the tops of the wings took some of the roundels with it. I am in need of a diagram for all the marking locations.....

I have seen pictures of the cockpit in green.... and the bomb aimers station is black as well as the turrets interiors. Yes????

All help is appreciated.
Bill

Airframes · Mar 17, 2011

Both the Airfix and Revell figures sets have approximately 25 to 30 figures, IIRC, including ground personnel, all in varying poses. In the Airfix set, there are normally two of each pose.
For the fuel truck, use the Airfix RAF re-fuelling set, which has two vehicles - the larger, AEC 'Matador' bowser would be used for the Halifax.
There is company that provides other vehicles, including bomb trollies and a 'David Brown' tractor, but I need to find their name. Alternatively, both the tractor and about three or four bomb trollies are included in the Airfix Short Stirling kit.
In the re-fuelling set mentioned above, the second vehicle can easily be converted to a truck from the bowser.

N4521U · Mar 17, 2011

The Stirling kit is probably out, $30+ and shipping for the kit, and I don't think I would ever build the plane.
The Airfix stuff, crew and refueling kit I will look at getting. Peter is helping with the purchasing.

I went out and got the paint for the camo, Humbrol 75 and matt 29 were the perfect match. Thank gott I didn't have to blend to match. So I have touched up some holes. Painted the ailerons and the horiz stab both sides. Just have to paint the scabbed on tail section. She's beginning to look real again.

Anyone know of a plastic display case big enough for this babby????? 400mm x 400mm, or 15" x 15" +/-?

Tony Hill · Mar 18, 2011

Cheers anyway...

A mystery then. I did think "bomb-load" as the rider is carrying a bomb.... but the Hallifax is only listed at 13,000lbs.....strange coincidence though that a Lancaster officially had a max load of 18,500lbs which is almost exactly 8 1/4 tons!!

I wonder whether there mightn't have been a common saying along the lines of "we gave them the whole 9 yards".. but "the whole 8 1/4 tons"...... and the saying or idea was the basis for the subscript on the Nose Art...I hope Peter knows!

Probably no new info for you but see here:

Halifax "Waltzing Matilda" [Archive] - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums

Darryl

N4521U · Mar 18, 2011

Seems to be some conjecture as to the ID of this ship, serial number to code. I will confirm this tomorrow over our 9 holes of golf in the morning.

I have one press release that states NR169 was HD*T in service, named the Kelly Gang Rides Again, but in fact the KGRA was HD*E for Easy. I also have a list of planes flown in all sorties of 466 Sqn, and NR169 is listed, but the serial number on this model is LV917, which I cannot find in this list at all. In fact I have found LV917 and it flew with 158 Sqn and flew with more than 35 skippers.

And this came up as well. LV 917 was one of a batch of Halifax III built by Rootes at Speke (Liverpool). She went to 158 Sqn on 7/3/44 and flew one mission as NP-T, 72 as NP-H and 25 as NP-C.

It differs about the "whole nine yards". One is the fact that an Ancient Scottish Kilt consisted of one piece of wool fabric 9 yards long. I used to wear one at faires in the States years ago. The most authentic folding of one that I have seen in movies is the one Mad Max Gibson wore in Braveheart, believe it or not!!!!! There are other stories.

N4521U · Mar 18, 2011

Just took this on my "bench". With all painting of the exterior done. Some of the replaced parts as well. Just have to polish to the fuselage and apply decals. Then cockpit and nose station painting. Peter liked the idea of a little diorama, pilots and crew, a bowser and truck. So I will pursue this with the dio.

But I still need something with proper locations of roundels and code letters... Somebody?????

Airframes · Mar 18, 2011

I'll dig out a representative profile and post sometime on Saturday afternoon, UK time.

N4521U · Mar 18, 2011

Airframes said:
I'll dig out a representative profile and post sometime on Saturday afternoon, UK time.

You beeeeuty........ I have some but nothing I can count on being correct. Thanks mate.

Wurger · Mar 19, 2011

I have had a look at the Osprey book Halifax Squadrons of WW2. I found ther a profile of Halifax HD_E and a shot of HD_T.
According to the caption of the image with HD_T in, it was Halifax B III of the 38th Squadron. And she was bought by G.N. Wickner and flown to Australia as G-AGXA wearing a new nose-art " Waltzing Matilda ". Once in Australia the aircraft was registered by owner's Air Carriers Ltd. as VH-BDT. It was seen derelict at Mascot airport in New South Wales, in 1947.

The Halifax B III HD_E as the caption says in the profile.

Wurger · Mar 19, 2011

As far as the Halifax of 158th Squadron is concerned..... I think there is a kind of mistake in the code of the unit. In the book mentioned above the Halifax B III Serial No. LV917 wore NP_C code leters but not the CN_P.

N4521U · Mar 19, 2011

All three are correct. HD*E was actually NR169 serial number I believe. I am waiting for Peter to have a look at his fathers log book to verify this.

However I have a pdf of a list of aircraft with 466 which lists HD*E as HX266, the Halifax shown in your illustration, and named "There ought to be more time for love". This same list has NR169 as the Kelly Gang, but no code letters listed.

But then HX266 in the list of 466 Sqn ops shows this may have been it's last op, 15/08/1944 B Eindhoven Airfield HX266, LV837, LV936, LV949, LV955, LW172, MZ296, MZ299, MZ306, MZ307, MZ308, MZ341, MZ342, MZ370.

The first op of NR169 could have been here, 25/10/1944 B Essen LV936, LV949, LW172, MZ306, Z792, MZ877, MZ903, MZ914, MZ945, NP968, NP971, NP976, NR125, NR127, NR132, NR149, NR152, NR169

So the code HD*E could have been re-assigned to the Gang. It's last op seems to be this one, 25/04/1945 B Wangerooge NA199, NP971, NP976, NP989, NR125, NR127, NR149, NR152, NR154, NR169, NR183, NR185, NR201, NR234, NR238, PN181, PN182, RG346.

So this may answer the dilemma. Thanks for all your input. I hadn't noticed the HX266 serial number on that plane till now.

Airframes · Mar 19, 2011

Well, 38 Sqn RAF never flew the Halifax, and 38 Sqn RAAF flew C47s !
The codes 'HD' are definitely for 466 Sqn, RAAF, based at Leconfield, and then at Driffield, Yorkshire, from 3 June 1944.
Here's another representative profile. Note that the red 'square' on top of the port wing is the outline for the dinghy stowage, and was on this wing only. Codes, serials and roundels are in the standard locations.

Wurger · Mar 19, 2011

And here my recent find in Halifax - Special issue by Bruce Robertson.

Wurger · Mar 19, 2011

And two more shots that might make the matter clarified. The source.... Halifax at war book by Brian J. Rapier.

According to that it seems the Kelly's Gang Halifax was the HD_T one but not the HD_E.

N4521U · Mar 19, 2011

Airframes said:
Well, 38 Sqn RAF never flew the Halifax, and 38 Sqn RAAF flew C47s !
The codes 'HD' are definitely for 466 Sqn, RAAF, based at Leconfield, and then at Driffield, Yorkshire, from 3 June 1944.
Here's another representative profile. Note that the red 'square' on top of the port wing is the outline for the dinghy stowage, and was on this wing only. Codes, serials and roundels are in the standard locations.

That's what I have been looking for!!!!!!!!!!!!! thanks for that... I'll be applying decals today!

And it's never That easy! Seems the decals are verrrrrry old. This is what happened. So I had to get a couple of wing decals from my left overs, lucky I had them. The tail flashes came from the same stash. They weren't on the model originally. Since the wing roundels took a crap on me, I'm not going to trust the codes. So I did them in Corel and will take them to work and have them cut on our plotter. It's a sign shop. Then will spray or just brush paint them. Will have to find the serial numbers, when I get thjem clarified!!!!!!!!

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