Ice Pilots question

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by engguy, Nov 15, 2012.

  1. engguy

    engguy Member

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    I keep hearing on the show, that Joe needs to start using a turbo prop, because of the new regulations. What and why would they have regulations to eliminate the recips?
     
  2. michaelmaltby

    michaelmaltby Well-Known Member

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    AVGAS (with octane booster additives) getting harder and harder to source ......?

    MM
     
  3. TheMustangRider

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    Ice pilots question? I came to the thread convinced I had read 'Ace pilots question'.:lol:
     
  4. Crimea_River

    Crimea_River Well-Known Member

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    I think Mike has it. I recall this being discussed in the show.
     
  5. GregP

    GregP Well-Known Member

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    Also, if you want to get repeat contracts, you sometimes need a turbine for the customer to feel that your aircraft are reliable and can do the job with some sense of confidence.

    Let's face it, the C-46 / 47 are great planes, but are fine only if flying a private cargo route or are the only planes on their route these days; they have too many mechanical issues. Turboprops are MUCH miore reliable and Joe would not likely be as succesful were he not in a uniquely isolated territory. He might do fine in Africa, South America, etc., but would not be accepted flying ragular routes into major metropolitan areas in Canada or the USA. People would not flock to his planes if they weren't the only big planes going into what are mostly small dirt and gravel strips ... sometimes ice. His Electras wonl;t do well on those missions.
     
  6. Thorlifter

    Thorlifter Well-Known Member

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    Greg, can a C-47 be retrofitted with a turboprop or would it just be better to get a whole new plane?
     
  7. michaelmaltby

    michaelmaltby Well-Known Member

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  8. tomo pauk

    tomo pauk Creator of Interesting Threads

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  9. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    Without watching the exact episode and fully understanding what the conversation was about, the only thing I can think of regulatory wise that would prohibit recip operations would be if he was operating under FARs Part 91, 135 or 121 and what he was hauling. There might be some equipment limitations on his current aircraft that would prohibit him from flying in certain weather conditions or altitudes.
     
  10. GregP

    GregP Well-Known Member

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    #10 GregP, Nov 15, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2012
    Hi FlyboyJ,

    Joe has bought 2 - 3 Electras and has not been flying them much. That's a lot of money tp have sitting around since airplanes only make money when they are flying for hire. Unfortunately, since he hasn't been flying them, much, he has only skeleton crews ... so when he gets an Electra contract, he has to scramble to get the plane ready and get a crew or crews for the mission.

    Which comes first? the contract or the plane and crews? You know how it is with smaller operations ... you want to get bigger, but when you get the equipment, it doesn't mean the orders come in to use it.

    As for the DC-3, you can get several conversions including a 3-engine one with a turbine in the nose! Ugly, but flies GREAT!
     
  11. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    Hi Greg!

    Totally understand what you're saying but engguy guy said he wasn't flying the recips because of regs, I'm wondering what the FEDS have on record where a turbo prop trumps a recip for his operations.
     
  12. engguy

    engguy Member

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    I think he still flys the recips, but is losing some contracts because of them. Maybe the same concerted effort going on here in the US like the forest service canceling antique recip planes for fire fighting. I really don't see why recips and the older planes would have mechanical issues any more than a turbine.
    Besides the Hawkins and Powers plane was not a recip and the wings snaped clean off, sure never heard of any old planes with that problem.
     
  13. GregP

    GregP Well-Known Member

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    I beileve the military contract he wanted from the RCAF specified a turbine aircraft. Perhaps "regs" meant contract specifications?
     
  14. engguy

    engguy Member

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    The one narating the program said something about losing fire fighting contracts. They also are saying the cost of the propeller for the electra costs as much as a DC-3 itself, around 250K. And each engine is about 1 million dollars. Saying nothing about the voracious appetite for fuel, I think that all makes the old recips look real good. Back when I was a kid working at an airport, our DC-3's were pretty maintenace free planes, I don't think I ever remember an engine going out.
    I really liked to help wrench on the Convair 240 they had, it was like a jet liner compaired to a DC3, yeah the good old days.
     
  15. GregP

    GregP Well-Known Member

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    Fire fighting contracts are usually with a government, and reliability is paramount ... unless you are the only game in town, like the Martin Mars is with regard to water-scooping flying boats. So government regs it well might be. Either way, you play the game or bow out. I'm glad Buffalo is trying to be a player and wish them well.
     
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