Erich said:
wheres your historical fact that the Ta 152H was used for airfield protection ?
where is your fact that the Ta 152C was never used in action ?
on and on we could go man...........let's let it ride ok.
incidently I am not changing the subject, what do these two men have to do with the Ta 152H ?
the 485 to 500 mph test data is from German documentation taken on the pre trials before the initial take over of Tanks by III./JG 301.
another note since you brought it up about Herr Tank and the Stangs. Tank was flying a C variant.
I am going to drop this right now as we are a both bit heated.........agreed ?
Many historians have written that 152s were used for airfield cover. I do know that the Dora was used in this role as well... Unfortunately, no one was protecting the Doras.... It may very well be that 152s were not used for 262 cover. I'm open to evidence that supports that. I'm not open to wiseguys who posture themselves as professional historians, yet can only claim that they know someone or have interviewed X amount of people... What do you call an interview? Bull sessions aren't interviews. I usually tape interviews. Data gents, unimpeachable documentation. Without this you can be 100% right and the professional historians will ignore you anyway. What historians want to see is reliable documentation, not personal accounts or memories. Reliable documentation excludes oral histories, diaries and the like. God knows, there has been a flood of counterfeit documents surfacing in recent years. Anyone trained in Photoshop or Illustrator can generate authentic looking documents and I've seen some pretty good fakes that fooled many. I know a chap who is an expert at detecting forgeries of Luftwaffe and RAF documents, so be advised, I will send him a copy of any data posted for his evaluation.
As to the 152C, I never discussed whether or not any saw combat. But considering that only two or three prototypes were built, it'd doubtful anyone noticed them. To my understanding, the Soviets captured the factory before any production 152Cs were completed. While the 152C would have been a formidable fighter, the latest American and British fighters were at least equal. If one or more prototype 152Cs were flown in combat, it was either for evaluation or out of desperation.
I'd still like to see factory test data showing that a Ta 152 could attain 500 mph in level flight, unassisted by gravity... But I won't see it, will I?
What makes you think I'm getting "heated"? Not in the least. I've been debating aviation on the web since the early days of usenet. You may be getting anxious being unable to support your 500 mph claim and would like to bug out of the discussion. You see, I'm willing to concede that 152s may never have been used for 262 cover. Maybe someone has better information than what I have seen. On the other hand, making a claim of 500 mph for the 152 is very much over the top. The incredible drag rise as a propeller fighter approaches 500 mph required a huge increase in power for tiny gains in speed. There's no way a 152 was going to attain 500 mph on just 2,000 hp. Republic's XP-47J could barely manage to exceed 500 mph and its R2800 C series engine was overboosted to the extent that it was making about 3,200 horsepower. Moreover, this was a one-off technology demonstrator, lighter and cleaner than any production P-47. Yet to exceed 500 mph, this lighter, aerodynamically cleaner aircraft required 600 more horsepower than the the P-47N to gain about 30 mph. To attain 500 mph, the 152 would need around 3,000 hp and it should be noted that the 152 probably had a similar drag coefficient to the 190D-9 which was likely greater than that of the XP-47J (.209).
My contention is that this is a bogus claim made spontaneously. If you have test data supporting it, post the data. By data I mean reliable factory data measured with calibrated test equipment, not anecdotal comments of pilots. As it is, you've already "adjusted" your facts down from "well the Ta could hit over 500 if neeed be then what?" to "485 to 500 mph".
My regards,
NAVAIR
