Udet said:
Also you said anyone flying virtually any plane can shoot down anyone. A wide open statement there. Correct, not entirely though. No matter how genius a fighter pilot is if complete inadequacy of his plane becomes part of the equation.
Even the Mossie, a true great plane, ended with its nuts barbecued when it met with the Me 262 of Kommando Welter.
The Ta 152. Likewise, no one´s suggested here it could change the direction of the war. Yep, only a few dozens reached service. So what?
Again, the Ta 152´s guarding jet bases or runways is another hell of a myth; it´s been duly debunked.
You make a point when stating the fight takes place where the threat is. That i fully agree.
The G-6/AS, G-10 and K-4 could comfortably perform in the altitude where the threat was flying. So why is it the allies enjoy so much the "it did not see the kind of action it was originally conceived to perform". Absolute non-sense.
Your comments on the Fw 190As are too wide and unspecified. Below 22,000 the Butcher Bird is second to none Mr. Navair.
Udet, have you had the opportunity to fly one of the online flight sims, such as Aces High, Warbirds or IL-2? Before anyone decides to debate the accuracy of these sims, I'll quickly concede that it is impossible to completely duplicate the environment of actual aerial combat due to the lack of G effect and other factors. However, if the flight physics are excellent, the relative performance of different aircraft can be seen. Moreover, if nothing else, you will understand the tactics of aerial combat. Remember, you do not compete against AI, but against real people in real time.
I've played all of them. I have concluded that Aces High offers the best flight physics of the bunch. Indeed, I have set up the game for former fighter pilots who commented that the P-38, P-51 and P-40 flight models were dead on.
For the historian and WWII aviation buff, these sims can add a lot of perspective on how you view aerial combat and, perhaps of greater importance, your understanding of pilot combat reports.
I would urge anyone with a keen interest in WWII air warfare to try one of these flight sims. Aces High and Warbirds offer free downloads and a free two-week trial period. Offline flight is always free as are head-to head arenas set up on private servers. Be advised to check the minimal system requirements. Aces High requires a top shelf video card and considerable RAM to truly enjoy the graphics. You should also invest in a quality joystick. I use CH Products stick, throttle and rudder pedals (the best in the industry), but Saitek and Thrustmaster offer adequate hardware for a lot less investment. You might also consider checking out the latest TrackIR gear at
http://www.naturalpoint.com.
You might find it interesting that more than a few active fighter pilots (from the USN, USAF, RAF and IAF fly Aces High). The learning curve is severe and you will require many hours (literally hundreds) to become proficient enough to survive in the main combat arena.
That's my job, I teach basic and advanced Air Combat Maneuvering in the training arena. Yo would also be surprised at how the badly the real fighter jocks are abused when they first show up all full of piss and vinegar. Many of the regular sim pilots have tens of thousands of hours flying combat sims and this experience is too much for even a professional fighter pilot to cope with. Like everyone else, they must hone their skills considerably to become competitive; although they already have mastered the theory, giving them a big leg up on a true neophyte.
Here's some screenshots from Aces High, no restrictions on use.
A Finn 109G-10 clobbers a Soviet La-5FN
The Aces High Dora9 attacking a B-24J
Anyway, back on topic.
Flying these sims demontrates that a lowly Hurricane MK.II can utterly obliterate a Me 262 should the Hurricane pilot get within range of his four Hispano cannons. This happens because the 262 pilot made a stupid mistake, exercised poor situational awareness or simply misjudged his energy state relative to the enemy. Within the sim, the 262 pilot is virtually untouchable if he elects to play it safe and stay fast. You will find that these sims completely validate the threat the 262 presented to the Allies in 1944. You will also see that the 262 is as dead as a roadkill skunk if the pilot allows his jet to get too slow or too low.
Remember this as it is the Gospel truth: A highly skilled pilot in a Spitfire Mk.V is far more lethal than a novice in an Me 262. A fast plane will keep you alive, but it will not kill the enemy for you. You will note that there were few, if any novice pilots flying 262s for the Luftwaffe, most were drawn from the surviving ranks of the elite, among the very best on earth.
The mere thought of running into a guy like Macky Steinhoff flying a 262 would send shivers down my spine.
As to the Ta 152. It had great potential.
My friend and Luftwaffe expert writes: "I'm not sure why the Ta 152H was built at all - it seems that the German leadership feared that the B-29 would be sent to Europe and fly at altitudes where the standard Luftwaffe fighters were out of their element."
Clearly, had the RLM provided the resources to more quickly develop the 152 series (I think that the 152C was the plane that deserved the focus), the Mustangs and Jugs would have had a much rougher time of it, and the higher performance P-51H would have been rushed to the ETO (it was initially planned for ETO deployment, but Gen. Arnold over-ruled this as he wanted the emphasis placed on escorting B-29s to Japan).
As to the Antons... In 1941 the 190A was the best fighter in the world. By 1943, the P-51B was superior below 22,000 feet. Considerably faster, and a better turner (those maneuver flaps really made a difference), the P-51B was still world class when the war ended. I should not overlook the Spitfire LF Mk. IX, which was extremely capable down low. I like the Spitfire Mk. XII too, another monster down low. By 1945 the Antons were outclassed in just about every parameter of flight performance by the Tempest, Spit XIV, P-51D and the latest Thunderbolts. On the other hand, the Dora9 was a match for any of them, assuming its pilot avoided the standard traps of attempting to maneuver with any of these for more than a few turns. Indeed, the Dora9 was as pure an energy fighter as ever existed, working the vertical and maintaining an energy advantage. In this respect it was extremely lethal. However, like 190A-8, it was dogmeat in a sustained turning fight with Spitfires or Mustangs, assuming pilots of equal skill levels. Especially dangerous for the Dora9 was the superlative Spitfire Mk.XIV, which out-performed the Dora in every category with the exception of roll rate. If I had to pick the best air superiority fighter fielded by the Allies in the ETO, the Spit XIV would be my choice.
Consider this; just because the Anton enjoyed reasonable success against the Allied onslaught of 1944, it doesn't mean that the Antons were better or even nearly as good. Their success would properly be laid at the feet of the excellent pilots of the Luftwaffe, who made due with older designs while the RLM dragged its feet getting more competitive fighters into mass production. Of course, that's my opinion, your's may differ.
My regards,
NAVAIR
) The same can be said for the WW2 pilots. If all you read is allied information than you are obviously going to talk about how much better allied aviation was. If all you read is German information then you are going to believe the opposite. So in this case the only true experts are the pilots themselves and they are unfortunatly dieing off at an alarming rate.
