Japanese Bomber Aircraft- Bomb Targeting Compass Site Instrument Information Request

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by desertsky, May 28, 2013.

  1. desertsky

    desertsky New Member

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    Hello,

    I was hoping that someone on this site might be able to help me better identify a Japanese aircraft compass instrument I have.

    All of the identification and information located on the case, and the instrument, are in Japanese, so I had someone do some rough translation.

    The label on the case says:

    Nishisk Rashin Tsuki Bakugeki Shoujunki Kaizo
    Tokyo Keiki Seisaku jo Seizo
    November 1932

    Which basically means:

    2 Way Bombing Site with Compass
    Manufactured by Tokyo Keiki Instrument Co.
    November 1932

    Although this instrument was made in 1932, I'm sure that it was probably used by the Japanese during the war.

    Is there anyone who has seen an instrument like this, and knows specifically what plane it would have been used on? Where on a plane would it be mounted, and how is was used?

    I have done a lot of research on the internet, and while I have seen similar instruments by the Americans and British, I have never seen a Japanese example. I believe that it might be quite rare.

    Unfortunately, the glass on the compass is cracked, but the compass still works, and the instrument itself is in excellent condition. There are also some accessories in the case as well.

    I might consider donating it to an aviation museum, however, I'm also thinking of perhaps selling it, and I don't know if a place such as ebay, or a more specialized auction would be better for something like this.

    If anyone has some info they'd like to share, that would be greatly appreciated.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Greyman

    Greyman Active Member

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    I know very little about Japanese hardware, but it appears to be a Navy Type 92 Bombsight.
     
  3. vikingBerserker

    vikingBerserker Well-Known Member

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    That's a really cool item to have.
     
  4. Shinpachi

    Shinpachi Well-Known Member

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    That is Type 2 Kai-3 Bombsight of the compass version.
    IJN float planes like the Type 14 patrol plane as E1Y or the Type 13 carrier attacker as B1M were equipped with it.

    A very very and VERY rare collection today!
     
  5. desertsky

    desertsky New Member

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    Thanks for the info, I'll see what kind of info I can find for that.
     
  6. bobbysocks

    bobbysocks Well-Known Member

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    a picture would be cool.....and if you can take one of the label someone here may be able to translate...
     
  7. desertsky

    desertsky New Member

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    Thanks for your reply Shinpachi,

    I had no idea it was so rare!

    I did a search on line for Type 2 Kai-3 but could not find any info on it, do you know a good site for information about it?

    It's great to find someone as knowledgeable as you to be able to connect the bombsite to specific planes. I took a look at the planes and it's amazing that one was a bi-plane and the other an early 1920's float plane. I guess you could only use a bombsight like this on a slow moving plane.

    Since my bombsite was made in 1932, do you think it could have also been used on a later plane from the 1930's?

    I know Tokyo Keiki Corp. is still in business, but do you thing that they still might have records on the sale of the bombsite to the IJN? In other words, if I gave them the serial number would they be able to trace it?

    Anyway, anymore input you might have to my questions would be greatly appreciated.
     
  8. desertsky

    desertsky New Member

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    I do have photos up, but unfortunately my host site is down right now but should come up soon.

    Shinpachi had some great feedback.

    Thanks
     
  9. Shinpachi

    Shinpachi Well-Known Member

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    Since there were no detailed informaion about the Type 2 bombsight itself, I researched it in several equipments lists issued by IJN in the 1930s.
    Thinking the situation at the time, I suspect the Type 2 bombsight was a copy of British one to be formally adopted by IJN in 1927.
    Those biplanes were mainly used in the Sino-Japanese war and almost abandoned before Pearl Harbor.
    Sorry but Tokyo Keiki Corp is out of my knowledge. My uncle in law was a radar designer in the company but had gone many years ago.
     
  10. vikingBerserker

    vikingBerserker Well-Known Member

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    Well done Shinpachi!
     
  11. desertsky

    desertsky New Member

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    Thanks again for your great knowledge, Shinpachi. It is amazing that even though the internet is so powerful, it's hard to find any information on the Type 2. I guess I should take better pictures so that people can study and enjoy it.

    It's amazing that your uncle use to work for Tokyo Keiki. I think I might contact them and see if they can trace the serial number.

    I continue to look forward to hearing what other people might be able to add.
     
  12. Shinpachi

    Shinpachi Well-Known Member

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    #12 Shinpachi, May 31, 2013
    Last edited: May 31, 2013
    You are welcome, desertsky.
    You may be the only one person who holds the IJN Type 2 Bombsight in the world as they began to abandon the type from 1937.
    It was just ten years life.
     
  13. desertsky

    desertsky New Member

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    If you're right Shinpachi, that is very exciting. I need to seriously think about what I should do with it.

    It will be interesting if someone else who finds this post might know of another somewhere.
     
  14. krugster

    krugster New Member

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    box 2.jpg tag sight back 1.jpg accessories 1.jpg sight 1.jpg Greetings,
    I was really suprised to see another Type 92-2. I have slightly newer one made in 1936. I have had a lot of help from forums like this to get as much info as possible and it has been a fascinating trip. I recently bought a book about Japanese Aircraft Equipment by Robert Mikesh. It was identified as a mechanical, low level (vector type) sight similar to a British RAF Mk.2 bombsight. I've read that the sight would have been used on Nell, Betty, Francis and Jill airplanes. My journey and pics can be found on the Gunboards and Tullys Port forum under krugster. I do have a weapons inspectors tag from May 21, 1940 with the back of the tag identifying it to the Japanese carrier Soryu 41-5. The color and the box configuration are different. You also have a cable. Mine had an abycus in the case. Hope you enjoy the journey.

    krugster
     
  15. Shinpachi

    Shinpachi Well-Known Member

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    Nice collection, krugster:shock:

    Sorry but Type 2 and Type 92 were different ones.
    Type 92 was adopted by IJN in 1932 to be replaced with Type 2.
     
  16. krugster

    krugster New Member

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    View attachment 234835 View attachment 234836 View attachment 234837

    Shinpachi,
    Am I correct in saying that desertsky has a Type 92 sight and that mine would be a Navy Type 92 Model 2? I have only seen pictures of the sight I posted and they have all been referred to as a Navy Type 92-2 or Model 2.

    I have seen a Type 2 vector sight but it was a Army unit based on but not similar to the 92.

    I included a couple of pics for more info. The sight is manufactured by the same company. The gray box appears to be an added modification (Model 2?). The inventory tag with the Soryu connection is also shown.

    The Mikesh book listed the Nakajima B6N carrier torpedo plane as a user of the sight. Ironic that the planning for Pearl Harbor may have been taking place when this sight was tagged. More work to do.

    I hope this info will help desertsky. We both need to get some quality pics and post for more info.

    Thanks,

    krugster
     
  17. Shinpachi

    Shinpachi Well-Known Member

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    #17 Shinpachi, Jun 3, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2013
    OK, please let me start from the beginning.

    The name plate of desertsky's bombsight shows -
    二式羅針付爆撃照準器改三(Type 2 Kai-3 Bombsight of the compass version).
    Kai means improvement, by the way.

    Not only these Japanese letters perfectly coincide with the navy's equipments lists but you can see the anchor marking on the plate.
    There should be no doubt that this is navy's Type 2 Bombsight.

    In case of the Type 92 Bombsight, I find no Model 2 but Mk-2.
    Will you upload your name plate photo(s) so that I can read letters in original state clearly?

    Thank you very much for your interesting collection, krugster.
    I am very curious.
     
  18. desertsky

    desertsky New Member

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    Hi Krugster,

    It is cool to see another variation of the bombsite. Thank you for posting your photos.

    Although Shinpachi said that the Type 92 was the successor to the Type 2 which I have, it seems as if there is still little info available on it as well, and your research has not been easy.

    However, it seems as if the tag that you are fortunate to have, which links your bomb site to a specific carrier, and the Soryu at that, is pretty fantastic.

    I am hoping that at some point I'll be able to link the Type 2 that I have to something specific.

    I should check out the book you mentioned to see if Robert Mikesh talks about the Type 2.

    Thanks for sharing a little of your story.
     
  19. Shinpachi

    Shinpachi Well-Known Member

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    #20 Shinpachi, Jun 4, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2013
    Thanks, krugster, for your detailed photos. They are so impressive as if I have come back to the 1930s.

    The 1st photo says

    Type92 Mk2 Bombsight (GOU of the 2 GOU of the site you referred should be translated as Mark not Model)
    Manufactured by Tokyo Keiki Co Ltd
    Products No. 696
    Manufactured in November 1936


    3rd photo

    Left List

    Type2 Mk2 Bombsight
    Weight
    Main body 5.5kgs
    Supporter 0.7kgs
    Accessories with box 3.3kgs

    Accessories List
    *Sorry but I need larger photo to translate all.

    Right List

    Magnet Rods for Correction
    Magnetized date September(or July) 1936
    *I need larger photo for the rest too

    4th photo

    Upper letter 停 for Halt or Stop.
    Lower letter 發 for Fire or Start.
     
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