Kaneyoshi Muto fight against 12 F6F (or F4U?)

Discussion in 'Stories' started by Vraciu, Apr 24, 2009.

  1. Vraciu

    Vraciu Member

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    Hi!

    There are some various versions of this action. Some sources say it was on 16th Feb, others say that it was on 26th Feb. Some sources say Muto was flying A6M, others say he was flying N1K2-J. Some sources say he fought against F6Fs, others say he fought against F4Us. Some sources say he claimed four victories, others say he claimed two, but propaganda added two more. Which version is true?:?: :?: :?:

    Regards
    Chris
     
  2. lesofprimus

    lesofprimus Active Member

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    Alot of differences appear, but its pretty much a sure shot that Muto was piloting the new N1K2-J "George" fighter when he engaged F6F's from VF-82 and shot down 4 of them......

    According to Sakai, Muto had shot down multiple Hellcats on a number of occasions, and may have shot down four on the occasion that you mention...
     
  3. Glider

    Glider Well-Known Member

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    Hell of an effort, as they say fortune favours the bold
     
  4. Wayne Little

    Wayne Little Well-Known Member

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    According to "Genda's Blade 343 Kokutai Japans Squadron of Aces" the event occurred on the 16th feb, and that in fact 10 Japanese pilots fought against the F6F's in this battle shooting down 4, the military propaganda machine needed a hero and Muto was their man!.....the 12 to 1 myth has evolved into fact.

    Ensign Kaneyoshi Muto was an 8 year veteran and an Ace in his own right with around 30 victories he would not return from a mission on the 24th July 1945 and is Missing in Action.
     
  5. Vraciu

    Vraciu Member

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    Another question. In this fight VF-82 lost four planes and four pilots, but all around this day (16th Feb) it lost six planes and pilots.
    Here they are:
    LT D.O. PUCKETT, JR.
    LT B.B. GEAR
    LT B.A. INGRAHAM
    ENS P.K. SPRADLING
    LT J.F. CARROLL
    ENS J.A. MCCANN

    Which of them were shot down during fight with Muto?
     
  6. Shinpachi

    Shinpachi Well-Known Member

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    #6 Shinpachi, Dec 17, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2009
    Two above Atsugi Airfield and the other two between Atsugi and Miura Peninsula chasing the rest.
    Opponents names were unknown.
    The battle date was February 17, 1945 in Japan.

    His tactics was first to take the altitude advantage as high as 3000 feet interval and wait for the oppoents coming up.
    He no sooner shot his closest one than recovered his altitude to wait for the next.
     

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  7. Vraciu

    Vraciu Member

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    As it is written in "3/202 Kokutai" Kagero book:

    "On February 16, 1945 a combined formation of A6M Zeros, N1K2-J Shiden-Kais and J2M3 Raidens from Yokosuka Kokutai led by Lt. Yuzo Tsukamoto fought a famous battle over Atsugi with US Grumman F6F-5 Hellcats from the VF-82 squadron of aircraft carrier Bennington. According to a popular Japanese story (...). Indeed, VF-82 lost F6F-5s and four pilots in this combat, but it is not known how many of these fell victim of Muto."

    As I wrote in first post of this thread, there are many versions of who, when and on which type of plane fought in this battle.
     
  8. timshatz

    timshatz Active Member

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    Very similar, in part, to the tactics used by McCambell when he shot down the 9 Aircraft off the Phillipines. Common thread of experienced aces.
     
  9. parsifal

    parsifal Well-Known Member

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    It would not surprise me if Muto was the responsible shooter for all 4 USN losses. I read an article once that roughly 90% of shoot downs are the result the work by 10% of the pilots. There tends to be a few experts that are real aerial killers, and the rest.....they are targets, there to keep the experts alive.


    This explains why for the japanese, after they had lost so many of their best trained aircrew early in the war, and adopted a replacement structure that failed to rotate and redistribute experienced air crew amongst the newly raised formations, that those new formations were just decimated. There wasnt that echelon of experienced that could punsh the attacking US formations. They had the targets, the decoys, but not the hunters, so to speak.
     
  10. JoeB

    JoeB Member

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    #10 JoeB, Dec 19, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2009
    According to Henry Sakaida in "Pacific Air Combat WWII": Puckett, Ingraham, Carroll and McCann; which I assume is what US accounts say for who was lost in that combat, which Tillman in "Hellcat" calls VF-82's 'rugged combat initiation', definitely Feb 16. Tillman doesn't give those four names, but notes that Spradling was downed in error by USN AA fire.

    The issue is whether the VF-82 February 16 combat actually matches up with Muto's claims (or claims on his behalf) of having downed 4 F6F's in a single combat. Henry Sakaida is a deservedly renowned author, but there is contrary evidence in other published sources. Shinpachi mentioned a date of Feb 17 and the link below is a chronology of Yokosuka Air Group giving that date for Muto's multiple F6F claim. That series of web pages gives as its source the 'Maru Special Pacific Air/Sea War Series'. The Yokosuka fighters did claim 5 F6F's on Feb 16, but at around 0730 whereas VF-82's combat (as seen from credits in Frank Olynyk's list of USN credits) was at 1215, and no a/c were specifically credited to Muto, per this chronology. The two sides were recording things on the same date and similar times btw, the USN was using close to local time (I'm not sure the exact mismatch in times if any, but it wasn't 5 hours). On the 17th the Yokusuka Group claimed 19 total USN a/c including F6F's, F4U's, and TBF/M's, according to the chronology, with 4 F6F's credited to Muto. The 16th was a much bigger day of action than 17th with 241 v 75 official victories credited on USN side, but both were big enough to probably introduce at least some doubt which units engaged each other. Sources I have don't mention serious air combat losses in a single USN unit in a single combat on the 17th; on the 16th VF-81 also suffered heavily in a single combat, 5 losses, in the afternoon.
    ????????????? ??????????

    Joe
     
  11. Vraciu

    Vraciu Member

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    God bless you, Joe! Thank you very much!
     
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