bobbysocks
Chief Master Sergeant
templars in north america....most certainly happened...this is where they hid the holy grail. latest theory believes it is buried under the drive thru window of a Bob's Big Boy burger joint in jersey.
Knights Templar and North America, myth or fact?
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GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
ouch! dayum!!Well they won't condemn the Boy Scouts because they are a supply of prey for the Preachers...
Que drum sound...
I kid, I kid...
mikewint
Captain
Chris, et al, I am not anti-anthing except the WBC (May each and everyone of them rot in you-know-where). I had one close friend who became a Mason years ago and a few things were related to me personally though he pretty quickly refused to speak about anything Masonic. When I asked why he gave the usual, i.e., business contacts and indeed coincidently? his business took a rather quick upturn.
Any online research will turn up tons of pro con articles. I tried to pick out consistant statements. I would also add that those who join generally move to up to 3rd degree and stay there. Very few move any higher. So how many 3rd degree Masons know what is going on at the 30th degree? Probably the same number of Americans who know what is going on in the heart of the CIA.
That being said the following US Presidents were Masons: George Washington, James Monroe, Andrew Jackson, James Polk, James Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, James Garfield, William McKinley, Theodore Roosevelt, Howard Taft, Warren Harding, Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman, Gerald Ford. Lincoln applied for membership but never returned to complete the process. LBJ was a 1st degree but never continued. Regan was an Honorary member of the Shrine and held a ceremony in the Oval Office where a group of Masons presented him with a certificate making him an Honorary Scottish Rite Mason. George Bush was also not a Mason though he took his oath of office on the George Washington Bible owned by the St. John's Lodge in New York.
I am always open to learning and if anything is in error please correct
Any online research will turn up tons of pro con articles. I tried to pick out consistant statements. I would also add that those who join generally move to up to 3rd degree and stay there. Very few move any higher. So how many 3rd degree Masons know what is going on at the 30th degree? Probably the same number of Americans who know what is going on in the heart of the CIA.
That being said the following US Presidents were Masons: George Washington, James Monroe, Andrew Jackson, James Polk, James Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, James Garfield, William McKinley, Theodore Roosevelt, Howard Taft, Warren Harding, Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman, Gerald Ford. Lincoln applied for membership but never returned to complete the process. LBJ was a 1st degree but never continued. Regan was an Honorary member of the Shrine and held a ceremony in the Oval Office where a group of Masons presented him with a certificate making him an Honorary Scottish Rite Mason. George Bush was also not a Mason though he took his oath of office on the George Washington Bible owned by the St. John's Lodge in New York.
I am always open to learning and if anything is in error please correct
I did not ask if you where anti. I only asked where you get your info, because you not believe everything you read on the internet.
Please explain to thme forum what the 33rd degree is?
I did not ask if you where anti. I only asked where you get your info, because you not believe everything you read on the internet.
Also please explain what the 33rd degree is since you make it out to be something clandestine.
Njaco
The Pop-Tart Whisperer
No offense Mike. I just want to relay my personal experience which was uber positive during my teen years. None of this "secret this" and "secret that" I saw as harmful. Who hasn't at one time kept a secret or was a member of some secret club? People hate and attack those things they don't understand or can not be a part of.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
I have had members of the family that have held higher positions in the Lodge, including my steddad's side.
One thing there is not alot of, is personal effects, since they are mostly buried with them after they have passed. One exception, is my stepdad's Father's sword, which bears traditional Masonic icons and additional symbols reflecting his station.
Oddly enough, when I've held the sword in the past, nothing happened: no temporal rifts opened, no thunderbolts shooting all over, no gregorian chants while the room grew dark and misty (although all of that would have been seriously badass if it did)...
One thing there is not alot of, is personal effects, since they are mostly buried with them after they have passed. One exception, is my stepdad's Father's sword, which bears traditional Masonic icons and additional symbols reflecting his station.
Oddly enough, when I've held the sword in the past, nothing happened: no temporal rifts opened, no thunderbolts shooting all over, no gregorian chants while the room grew dark and misty (although all of that would have been seriously badass if it did)...
mikewint
Captain
Had to reduce it to fit but this does it much better than I could. Degrees are only in the Scottish rite and an individual can only earn the 32 degree: Sublime Prince of the Royal Secret (which is? that's why people conjecture). The 33rd degree is awarded by the Supreme Council of the Rite: Soverign Grand Inspector General.
The open book is the Bible and in the US the "G" stands for God
The open book is the Bible and in the US the "G" stands for God
Attachments
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bobbysocks
Chief Master Sergeant
33 degree is the rank you have reached. there are classes and rituals all the way up. at each level you are privy to more information ( secrets...)
There are lots of things you can't become if you're an atheist.
A naturalised American for one.
There are a number of states where you cannot hold public office if you're an atheist.
I may be biased, but the Mason's specifically excluded a mass-murderer, and the Catholic Church opened it arms to one? Which one sounds more moral?
parsifal
Colonel
Ive got no opinion on this one way or the other. I was very surprised however that the knights templar issue still raises such strong feelings
THE DARK HISTORY OF THE TEMPLARS
THE DARK HISTORY OF THE TEMPLARS
The Vatican is where that gem comes from. Even today you cannot be a practicing catholic and a freemason as you would be in a state of grave sin with all the penalties that incurs from the Church.
The Roman Church considers many sects and organisations as anti catholic or anti Christian, including some other non catholic churches though it tries to mitigate this by blurring the line today. I remember the then pope and senior prelate of the English Church (Archbishop of Canterbury) praying together a few years ago. It made me smile because the Archbishop though recognised as a Christian brother, is in an imperfect relationship with the church. Some protestants are so imperfect that they are essentially heretics. A 17th century puritan would fall into that category as he got on the boat for the New World
One of the charges levelled against the Templars was that they denied the Holy Trinity, that is they denied the Divinity of Christ. This is a very old and oft repeated heresy which is alleged to have been passed on to Freemasonry. Notice that it does not deny the existence of a God or supreme being, just one of the fundamental tenets of post third century Christianity. It is a belief shared by the two other principle monotheistic religions, neither of which believe in the Christian Trinity or divinity of Christ, including Judaism of course, which certainly worried the early Church.
Most freemasons are simply unaware of all this mumbo jumbo because it is of no concern to them and they never intend to progress to the higher degrees of knowledge (if it is that) in any case.
Cheers
Steve
Hmmm...?
I will leave it at that.
I will leave it at that.
I don't know how much I'd trust a website that starts out by saying that the crusades weren't motivated by Christianity.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Yeah, that and the twisting and turning of the narrative.
I like how it passed quickly over the fact that after the crusades, a good number of European monarchs owed the Templars money. And as the Monarch's debt increased, so to, did the rumors of devil worship, eating babies and kicking kittens.
And there is the usual "Templars are Freemasons" and "Templars owned Switzerland" and the dumbing down of the Saracen attrocities...
The author of this website should get together with Nicholas Cage and do a sequel to "National Treasure"...of course, there won't be any accuracy to the movie (as usual), but it should be mildy entertaining.
parsifal
Colonel
you notice how that article I posted doesn't give sources or identify its author. You gotta question it just from that perspective. I suspect an Islamic source. but its the emotion, the sheer hatred that surprised me....dressed up to look scholarly and impartial.....
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Agreed...notice how the Templars are accused of doing something the Sarecens were notorious for?
The sad thing about the internet, is that it was originally intended to be a rapid exchange of information between institutions and organizations.
Since then, it's original design has degraded into a hotbed of conspiracies, misinformation and half-educated opinion.
As far as references contained in the article, there are some. Yet they too, are of the same caliber as this author.
Well he got the charges laid against the Order correct. More detail did survive. Individuals were charged not just with denying Christ (not his existence but that he was God, part of the Trinity) but also 'trampling' and 'spitting' on the Holy Cross. That doesn't sound terribly Christian to me.
Cheers
Steve
Cheers
Steve
soulezoo
Senior Airman
That seemed to be a barely held secret...
Where do you get your information from?
And yes I am a Mason.
