Lancaster crash site Plochingen

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by jupiter, Apr 27, 2010.

  1. jupiter

    jupiter Member

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    Hi I am researching my grandfathers final flight. He was member of 625 Squadron and was shot down in Lancaster LM546 on the 28/29 july 1944, whilst on a raid over Stuttgart. The aircraft crashed in a wooded area near autobahn 10 in PLochingen. I am trying to research the crash site further, can anyone help? I have contacted local archives and newspapers to no avail, there is a mention in Stuttgart im luftkrieg
    Can anyone of our german friends help.

    Pete
     
  2. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    I have been trying to help you, but also to no avail. I will contact the numbers that you have sent me in a PM however within the next week as soon as I have more time.
     
  3. A4K

    A4K Well-Known Member

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    #3 A4K, Apr 27, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2010
  4. beaupower32

    beaupower32 Well-Known Member

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    Serial Range LM301 - LM756 This aircraft was one of 350 Lancasters ordered from A.V.Roe (Yeadon) as Mk.111s except for the first ten as Mk.1s (LM301- LM310), delivered from Oct42 to Oct44. Mk.1s had Merlin 20 engines and the Mk.111s Merlin 38 engines initially installed. LM546 was delivered to No.625 Sqdn 12May44. Incomplete operational history. However, it is recorded that LM546 also took part in the Key Operation against Duisburg 21/22May44 and that when lost against Stuttgart had a total of 103 hours. LM546 was one of two No.625 Sqdn Lancasters lost on this operation. See: LL962 Airborne 2119 28Jul44 from Kelstern. Cause of loss not established. Crashed 0200 29Jul44 in the vicinity of Esslingen. They were all nearing the end of their operational tour. F/O F.Collett PoW Sgt N.Jones PoW F/O J.Stephenson PoW F/O W.R.Lott PoW Sgt E.Evison PoW Sgt L.Naylor PoW F/S W.A.Peterkin PoW F/O F.Collett was interned in Camp L3. PoW No.6490 with F/O W.R.Lott, PoW No.6952 and F/O J.Stephenson, PoW No.6964. Sgt E.Evison in Camp L7, PoW No.515 with F/S W.A.Peterkin, PoW No.480. DFM 14Nov44. Sgt N.Jones, PoW No.461 and Sgt L.Naylor, PoW No.476. "

    Lost Bombers - World War II Lost Bombers
     
  5. smackers

    smackers Member

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    I keep finding info stating the crash site was Esslingen but cannot find further info like co-ordinates.
    The info for this plane is listed 3rd from bottom on page 65.

    View attachment lanc_losses jul44.pdf
     
  6. jupiter

    jupiter Member

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  7. Maximowitz

    Maximowitz Active Member

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    Do we know the cause? Flak or Nightfighters? Was a time recorded for this loss?
     
  8. smackers

    smackers Member

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    Translated this, still translating.

    Hi,

    I know the LM546 crashed in the wooded area north of Esslingen-Liebersbronn. The info is somewhere in Bardua in it - but now I'm too lazy to leaf through the entire book. The machine would have reached somewhere in the triangle "Jägerhaus-Liebersbronn-Aichschieß" terra firma.

    Regards,
    Uwe
     
  9. smackers

    smackers Member

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    Next translation from Uwe seems to put it within a 10 mile radius which i think is about the most you'll get.

    I have the first edition, and there it is page 110 From memory - I'm in the office, the book is at home - there is an "Interview" (eyewitness report) from one of the crew of Lancaster. Geschilder is how the machine on fire suddenly, the bounce of Esslingen and the capture.
    Bardua suspected then that this is the machine crashed in Esslingen-Liebersbronn, because there definitely was an RAF bomber crashed in the July attacks. An "exact" location is not there - including!?
    But if you want to look for scrap - that is a wonderful area for hiking.
    If you are at the gliding site Esslingen-hunting lodge and begin systematically searching the wooded area on the ridge between the Neckar and Rems valley in the direction Plochingen - are only about 10 square miles - then you will certainly find it in 2-3 years - or not. Health of the rest in the fresh air and the movement is absolutely.

    Good luck and have fun while you search and greetings to my old home,
    Uwe from KA (ex S-Mühlhausen)
     
  10. Maximowitz

    Maximowitz Active Member

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    I note there's quite a few Nightfighter claims around the 02:00 timeframe......Bomber Command were getting slaughtered that night with many NJG units operating.
     
  11. smackers

    smackers Member

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    I pm'd you Pete with a full translation of what Seesul found for you
     
  12. seesul

    seesul Active Member

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    Thx 4 the translation!
     
  13. smackers

    smackers Member

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    You're welcome
     
  14. seesul

    seesul Active Member

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    Pete,

    if am I not wrong, Uwe from that German forum, who helped me a lot during my research, is a member of this forum (ww2aircraft) as well under the nickname DR40eghs. Try to send him a PM, he speaks English as well.
    In case of problem just ask me for his e-mail address, I got it.

    Cheers

    Roman
     
  15. jupiter

    jupiter Member

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    There is some dispute over who shot him down

    29.07.44 Oblt. Johannes Hager 6./NJG 1 4-mot. Flzg.  Raum Strasbourg at 3.300 m. 01.58 Film C. 2027/II Anerk: Nr.63
    29.07.44 Uffz. Grosser 11./NJG 1 4-mot. Flzg.  Raum Metz at 3.300 m. 01.58 Film C. 2027/II Anerk: Nr.264
    29.07.44 Uffz. Grosser 11./NJG 1 4-mot. Flzg.  Raum Metz at 3.200 m. 01.59 Film C. 2027/II Anerk: Nr.265
    29.07.44 Oblt. Fritz Lau Stab II./NJG 1 4-mot. Flzg.  20 km. W. Stuttgart: 4-4.500 m. 01.59 Film C. 2027/II Anerk: Nr.81
    29.07.44 Uffz. Egon Engling 8./NJG 2 4-mot. Flzg.  AS-BS at 5.200 m. [Pförzheim-Calw] 01.58 Film C. 2027/II Anerk: Nr.30
    29.07.44 Ofw. Kramer Stab/NJG 3 4-mot. Flzg.  40-70 km. N.W. Helgoland: 2.900 m. 02.00 Film C. 2027/II Anerk: Nr.40
    29.07.44 Oblt. Martin Becker 2./NJG 6 Lancaster  AS-BS: 4.500 m. [Pförzheim-Calw] 02.04 Film C. 2027/II Anerk: Nr.41
    29.07.44 Fw. Koch 6./NJG 1 4-mot. Flzg.  30 km. S.W. Helgoland: 4.500 m. 02.06 Film C. 2027/II Anerk: Nr.64
    29.07.44 Maj. Höfele Stab III./NJG 1 Lancaster  05 Ost N/TH-3 See: 2.500 m. [North Sea] 02.06 Film C. 2027/II Anerk: Nr.64
    29.07.44 Fw. Günther Bahr 1./NJG 6 Lancaster  20-50 km. v. Obj. Stuttgart: 5.400 m. 02.08 Film C. 2027/II Anerk: Nr.29
    29.07.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinz Augenstein 12./NJG 1 4-mot. Flzg.  Obj. Stuttgart at 4.600 m. 02.11 Film C. 2027/II Anerk: Nr.142
    29.07.44 Uffz. Ullmann 2./NJG 4 4-mot. Flgz.  S.E. Stuttgart: 3.700 m. 02.14 Film C. 2027/II Anerk: Nr.26

    I believe it is Ullmahn as it was reported they baled out at 0110 english time and the aircraft crashed SE of the city. My friend belives it to Lau as they were attacked before they bombed so would not be SE
     
  16. jupiter

    jupiter Member

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    It is also belived to have been a ME110
     
  17. Maximowitz

    Maximowitz Active Member

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    You can take your pick on who shot it down, the chances of finding exactly who did the deed are slim. As I said there's a lot of candidates.

    There were plenty of experten in the air that night.

    Rokker, Rauh, Becker, Schnaufer, Augenstein, Hager....etc
     
  18. smackers

    smackers Member

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    #18 smackers, Apr 28, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2010
    Pete,

    You really need to try and get a combat report, try searching google.de or asking on german forums for Abschussmeldung

    Just found this forum which has reference to the film mentioned in Ullmann's claim for 29/07/44 (C 2027), seems Lau's report is on the same microfilm. Could it be a start??? Post no 5 states he has the microfilm but that was 8 years ago.

    http://www.lwag.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1611

    Regards
    Mike
     
  19. seesul

    seesul Active Member

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    Good work Mike!
     
  20. smackers

    smackers Member

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    #20 smackers, Apr 28, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2010
    After more searching, it seems the microfilm could be owned by the people running this site -

    http://www.lesbutler.ip3.co.uk/tony/tonywood.htm

    View attachment reichwestsudmayjul.pdf

    Pete, the pdf document states the microfilm reel required and comments state it is in very very good condition so there is a good chance of getting a decent copy of both the combat reports (Lau and Ullmann) from it in paper format although i suspect the information you require may not be given for free.
    Fingers crossed you will be able to get alot of information that you have been needing.

    Best regards

    Mike
     
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