Lancaster Vs. B-24

[FLYBOYJ]

Probably could have built that many.

But only putting out 7500 Lancs isnt much of an achievement at all. The Germans showed that production could be decentralized and yet output could go way up.

Either the UK production engineers werent daring enough to think of ways to boost production, or maybe the RAF was wasting its aviation production capability on trying to build too many different types of planes.

NO! They had these funny little planes with bent crosses on their tails flying over them dropping bombs, I think that might slow things down a bit!

The Germans made no real attempt to seriously mass produce a plane like the Lancaster or the B-24, and dont count that flying disaster the -177 Grief!!!

 

[syscom3]

Its only a matter of sub assembly's being bolted together.

Four one engined airplanes = a single four engined bomber

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Its only a matter of sub assembly's being bolted together.

Four one engined airplanes = a single four engined bomber

BOLT TOGETHER?!?
Have you ever witnesses two large aircraft sub assemblies go together?!? In some of the application you don't use rivets, you use a steel pin called a hi loc which needs to be precision drilled and swedged into place. You also need an assembly jig to hold everything together or else you build a crooked plane, you just don't "bolt together" a large aircraft!

Remember you hand build a bomber it takes over 200,000 manhours per plane, that's how long the first B-24s took to build if you put in you're example?!?

 

[syscom3]

The rate per assembly went down to 15,000 or so for the whole thing. Call it bolting or riviting, it doesnt matter. If the aircraft is designed correctly, its just line up the jigs and start the assembly process.

Excuse me if I didnt specify that the sub assemblies had to be on jigs, there had to be people on hand to do the thing, the factory had to have some type of power turned on, there had to be a cup of coffee or tea brewing somewhere, blah blah blah, blah blah

The US proved it could be done quickly and there was no reason for the brits not to be able to do it. In some ways, they should have been able to do it faster than the US as all their production facilities were located near each other as compared to the US.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

The US proved it could be done quickly and there was no reason for the Brits not to be able to do it. In some ways, they should have been able to do it faster than the US as all their production facilities were located near each other as compared to the US.

Its called manpower and resources and they (the UK) didn't have it to the extent we did. Much of the aircraft manufacturing industry methodology was actually learned from them, we improved on it (willow run) by inviting automotive manufacturers into the situation and at the time the US was a world leader in that industry. They probably could of adopted some of the things we did built it would of meant shutting down a production line to incorporate those improvements, you don't do that if you're fighting for your life...

 

[syscom3]

Even if they produced it in a more conventional manner, they still should have been able to boost production. Remember the US was never at full war emergency as the Brits were. They could move people and material around with far more ease.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Its only a matter of sub assembly's being bolted together.

Four one engined airplanes = a single four engined bomber

BOLT TOGETHER?!?
Have you ever witnesses two large aircraft sub assemblies go together?!? In some of the application you don't use rivets, you use a steel pin called a hi loc which needs to be precision drilled and swedged into place. You also need an assembly jig to hold everything together or else you build a crooked plane, you just don't "bolt together" a large aircraft!

Remember you hand build a bomber it takes over 200,000 manhours per plane, that's how long the first B-24s took to build if you put in you're example?!?

Oh and dont forget to mention that it is not a Ford Car. Putting together an aicraft is precision work. I have been stating that over and over but it just does not sink in.

I think tomorrow I will take my Blackhawk apart and Bolt the Sub Assemblies back together because its easy!

 

[Glider]

Probably could have built that many.

But only putting out 7500 Lancs isnt much of an achievement at all. The Germans showed that production could be decentralized and yet output could go way up.
.

I think you will find that Germany produced less aircraft than the UK in straight numbers and generally less complex aircraft.

4 engine aircraft UK around 16-17,000 Germany around 1000

We also out produced Germany in the first half of the war when we were nd definately on the defensive. The UK doesn't have to apologise for our ability to build under pressure.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I think Germany built more than a 1000 4 engine aircraft during the war. Not sure I might be wrong, I will have research this.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Even if they produced it in a more conventional manner, they still should have been able to boost production. Remember the US was never at full war emergency as the Brits were. They could move people and material around with far more ease.

Thety didn't have the people or resources!!!!

 

[syscom3]

They had enough to concentrate on 3 or 4 planes and produce them by the thousands.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

And they did do just that. They concentrated on what they needed for survival: Fighters! You have to remember that they were being attacked at the hight of the Blitz. Had the US been in there shoes they would have concentrated on fighters too just like England did.

Look at the time line man!

 

[FLYBOYJ]

They had enough to concentrate on 3 or 4 planes and produce them by the thousands.

And that's it! They didn't have the ability to bring in the raw materials necessary to construct modern factories (Like Willow Run) and to even attempt to do so could of spelled disaster to an already taxed demand. Why do you think they (the UK) purchased P-40s, Baltimores, Marylands, B-24s, etc., etc. They were fighting for their lives. At the same time this doesn't diminish the effort they put into their aircraft industry and the products they produced....


During the Blitz several of their major aircraft factories were bombed (Supermarine factory in Southampton for one) as a matter of fact, there was an all-out effort to destroy the British ability to manufacture aircraft on August 12, 1940. The Brits had less people, resources, and were being bombed - to attempt to say they should of matched US production numbers is ridiculous!

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

It is rather a matter of common sense. The British did the best they could at the time and built what was necessary to survive. What did they concentrate on at first? Fighters. Bingo you need fighters to destroy the enemy offensive.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

It is rather a matter of common sense. The British did the best they could at the time and built what was necessary to survive. What did they concentrate on at first? Fighters. Bingo you need fighters to destroy the enemy offensive.

YEP!!!

 

[Gnomey]

It is rather a matter of common sense. The British did the best they could at the time and built what was necessary to survive. What did they concentrate on at first? Fighters. Bingo you need fighters to destroy the enemy offensive.

YEP!!!

Agreed, and then you need heavy bombers to take the offensive back to him.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

And at that point the bomber offensive was not longer just the RAF Bomber Command but also the USAAF B-17 and B-24.

 

[Gnomey]

And at that point the bomber offensive was not longer just the RAF Bomber Command but also the USAAF B-17 and B-24.

Exactly.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

and this was wartime, FB made some good points, do you really honestly think that we wouldn't be producing to our fullest capacity? we don't have the manpower of america, to claim we do is rediculous, i shall point out again that at the peak of production Avro had 29,000 men working on lancasters, that's for every factory and many sub-contractors, willow run alone employed 42,000, why? becuase america had the man power, we did not...........

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Dont forget the Women also. While the men went off to fight the women went it and did the job of building aircraft for them. More so in the US than in Britain.