dieseltaylor
Recruit
- 6
- Aug 11, 2005
Any airspeed information on this version of the Stuka would be appreciated. This information for any variant might still be useful . Thanks
Landing and /or stall speed for Junkers 87 g ?
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FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
You can but a flight manual for the JU-87 online (probably a repro). I would guess landing speeds would be about 90 mph, I would guess the thing would stall between 75 - 80 mph.
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
As some fodder for the masses, here is a vid clip of a Ju-87G firing those sweet 37's...
Not really flying at stalling speed is he???
Not really flying at stalling speed is he???
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dieseltaylor
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- 6
- Aug 11, 2005
Thanks for the link. That really is brilliant stuff. Rudel said low speed was primary so I personally think it's not Rudel flying! and it is very late war in wooded terrain when things may have changed considerably from the days on the steppes.
Good video. I like it.
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dieseltaylor
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- Aug 11, 2005
An amateur pilot has given a best guess speed of 100 knots - about 180kph.
It just looks fast : ).
As for the ability to hit small targets - the vulnerable bits of tanks etc that is still up for debate. I am conscious that some pilots are substantially better than average so I reconcile myself to eventually finding some info on hitting smallish targets from low and slow planes.
It just looks fast : ).
As for the ability to hit small targets - the vulnerable bits of tanks etc that is still up for debate. I am conscious that some pilots are substantially better than average so I reconcile myself to eventually finding some info on hitting smallish targets from low and slow planes.
You would want to be slower in my opinion. I doubt the Stukas landing speed was 100 knots. I would think it would be slower.
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
Here is a piece of an interview of one of the earliest Stuka pilots to serve in a specialized tank-destroying Staffel....
His name is Hermann Neumann.... In an interview with Ed McCaul, Neumann described some of his 368 combat missions, during which he was credited with destroying 68 Russian tanks and was recommended for the Ritterkreuz (Knight's Cross).....
I N T E R V I E W
TANK-BUSTING STUKA PILOT
By Ed McCaul
MH: How much danger was there at 100 meters if the tank would blow up? Would you not have to fly through the debris?
Neumann: After we fired out cannons, we would go to the right or left, but we did not directly fly over the tank. One time a Sergeant Ott was shooting at a Russian Klimenti Voroshilov KV-2 heavy tank that was in between a farm house and a barn. The KV-2 had a big square turret and heavy armor. Ott went down and shot but nothing happened. So he said, "OK, if it does not explode I will make so many holes in it that it will not be any good anymore!" So he went down again and when he was very close to the tank it exploded. The turret flew over his canopy. When we got back to the base he was shaking and kept saying, "I saw the turret over the top of my canopy!"
MH: How low would you have to fly to destroy a tank?
Neumann: For the Stalin we had to fly at 20 or 30 feet...(at) about 300 kilometers per hour. We would be flying that low for maybe five to 10 seconds. If you got them in your sights you only really needed a second or two. Remember, for the Stalin, our guns were adjusted for 100 meters. So, we had to get close to them.
MH: How was the morale in the unit when you arrived in December 1943?
Neumann: It was fine. We knew for what we were fighting. Ever tank I destroyed was one less tank that could possibly get to Germany. It was a fight to the end.
His name is Hermann Neumann.... In an interview with Ed McCaul, Neumann described some of his 368 combat missions, during which he was credited with destroying 68 Russian tanks and was recommended for the Ritterkreuz (Knight's Cross).....
I N T E R V I E W
TANK-BUSTING STUKA PILOT
By Ed McCaul
MH: How much danger was there at 100 meters if the tank would blow up? Would you not have to fly through the debris?
Neumann: After we fired out cannons, we would go to the right or left, but we did not directly fly over the tank. One time a Sergeant Ott was shooting at a Russian Klimenti Voroshilov KV-2 heavy tank that was in between a farm house and a barn. The KV-2 had a big square turret and heavy armor. Ott went down and shot but nothing happened. So he said, "OK, if it does not explode I will make so many holes in it that it will not be any good anymore!" So he went down again and when he was very close to the tank it exploded. The turret flew over his canopy. When we got back to the base he was shaking and kept saying, "I saw the turret over the top of my canopy!"
MH: How low would you have to fly to destroy a tank?
Neumann: For the Stalin we had to fly at 20 or 30 feet...(at) about 300 kilometers per hour. We would be flying that low for maybe five to 10 seconds. If you got them in your sights you only really needed a second or two. Remember, for the Stalin, our guns were adjusted for 100 meters. So, we had to get close to them.
MH: How was the morale in the unit when you arrived in December 1943?
Neumann: It was fine. We knew for what we were fighting. Ever tank I destroyed was one less tank that could possibly get to Germany. It was a fight to the end.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
dieseltaylor said:
I'm not an amateur pilot, I'm a flight instructor - sometimes I do get paid to fly..... 8)
DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
Based on the size of the Stuka, it's weight and engine HP - I would compare it to a T-6 in normal operations, take off, level turns landings (although the Stuka had about 600 more HP both of them had a top speed at abut 240 mph). A T-6 stalls at 65 MPH - so you're slowest final approach would be 1.3 times that (1.3xVs1) of stall speed. which means the T-6 landed at about 85 mph and it weighed close to 6,000 lbs. The Stuka in some models weighed over 10,000 lbs - that's a lot of mass even when using full flaps....
In comparison - the P-51s land at about 100 mph, F-86, at about 105 mph, P-38 about 105 mph.
I really don't think 90 mph is unreasonable at landing, that would give a stall speed of 70 mph - pretty slow for a plane that weighs 10,000 lbs........
8)
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
So someone tell me how fast in mph is 300kts, which was the attack speed generally used for the Ju-87G..........
No I agree with you FBJ. I was just saying slower than 100 knots.
evangilder
"Shooter"
You mean 300 kph, Les? That is what he said in the quote above. Anyway 300 km/hr is about 186 MPH.
300 kts would be about 345 MPH.
300 kts would be about 345 MPH.
Yeap
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Ditto! - In a dive I would guess the Stuka would pull 345 mph (300 knots) easily
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
Yes that was an error on my part.... 300 kph..... 186 mph???? Sounds about right, and from the videoclip I posted, I would say thats around the same speed that -87G pilot is flying at...
The fact that u have to fly slow to locate, line-up and destroy tanks is outweighed by the anti-aircraft situation...
Too slow and ur part of the landscape, thanks to some 19 year old kid sittin on a truckbed...
The fact that u have to fly slow to locate, line-up and destroy tanks is outweighed by the anti-aircraft situation...
Too slow and ur part of the landscape, thanks to some 19 year old kid sittin on a truckbed...
Erich
the old Sage
as a side comment I think I mentoned something like this last fall but at tnight the Ju 87D's of the NSG units would fly by threes to strafe and bomb Allied junctions and MT columns, actually about anything they were tasked too. They did not fly at max speed at mid altitude but a significantly slower speed say around 150mph so the Allied night fighter pursueing would have to stall out or at least overshoot them so the Stuka rear gunner could try if needed get off some MG 81 rounds.
willhave to gather my P-61 ETO histories and look through the Stuak intercepts to find a common spped flown by the German craft, but every P-61 acct. tells of having to slow way down, sometimes dropping the undercarriage and then firing and banking away due to possible collisions.
E ~
willhave to gather my P-61 ETO histories and look through the Stuak intercepts to find a common spped flown by the German craft, but every P-61 acct. tells of having to slow way down, sometimes dropping the undercarriage and then firing and banking away due to possible collisions.
E ~
The only thing I was saying the Stuka was slow in was landing.
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dieseltaylor
Recruit
- 6
- Aug 11, 2005
I am grateful for the posts. The item by Neumann is interseting as in the htread on Battlefront some are happy to accept N.'s speed estimate whilst refuting the 87G as a tank killer!. I had maintained that a] as Rudel said fly slow B] and from Flyboys comment on speed that optimum was slower than that.
Depending on the nature of local flak then it could be very slow ...
Anyway one of the curiosities that I ahave found is a reference to a 500kg bomb that contained 78 4kg hollow charge bomblets that could penetrate all Russian tanks. Only one site had this reference to:
"On the Russian front the standard anti-tank weapon was the SD-4-H1 a 4 kg hollow-charge bomblet.Seventy eight were carried inside a 500 kg bomb case.The bomblets could penetrate the thin top armour of any Allied tank-even the massive JS-2s used by the Red Army's in 1945.
I cannot raise anything yet on Googling those ID figures. Any info. Or for that matter any more on Ground Attack in the east. Thanks
Depending on the nature of local flak then it could be very slow ...
Anyway one of the curiosities that I ahave found is a reference to a 500kg bomb that contained 78 4kg hollow charge bomblets that could penetrate all Russian tanks. Only one site had this reference to:
"On the Russian front the standard anti-tank weapon was the SD-4-H1 a 4 kg hollow-charge bomblet.Seventy eight were carried inside a 500 kg bomb case.The bomblets could penetrate the thin top armour of any Allied tank-even the massive JS-2s used by the Red Army's in 1945.
I cannot raise anything yet on Googling those ID figures. Any info. Or for that matter any more on Ground Attack in the east. Thanks
Erich would be the man for that stuff.
