Longest range flying boats

[Admiral Beez]

The Axis made some ultra long range flying boats. Though we must be wary of Wikipedia as some aircraft are ferry weight and others loaded weights.

Blohm & Voss BV 222 - 6,100 km (3,800 mi, 3,300 nmi)
Blohm & Voss BV 238 - 6,620 km (4,110 mi, 3,570 nmi)
Kawanishi H8K - 7,152 km (4,444 mi, 3,862 nmi)

Meanwhile the Allies were comparatively short ranged.

Short Seaford - 5,000 km (3,100 mi, 2,700 nmi)
Consolidated PB2Y Coronado - 1,720 km (1,070 mi, 930 nmi)

That is, until Mars conquers all.... Martin JRM Mars 8,000 km (4,900 mi, 4,300 nmi)

It must have seemed incredible to fly those distances in the late 1930s to mid 40s.

 

[Koopernic]

The Axis made some ultra long range flying boats. Though we must be wary of Wikipedia as some aircraft are ferry weight and others loaded weights.

Blohm & Voss BV 222 - 6,100 km (3,800 mi, 3,300 nmi)
Blohm & Voss BV 238 - 6,620 km (4,110 mi, 3,570 nmi)
Kawanishi H8K - 7,152 km (4,444 mi, 3,862 nmi)

Meanwhile the Allies were comparatively short ranged.

Short Seaford - 5,000 km (3,100 mi, 2,700 nmi)
Consolidated PB2Y Coronado - 1,720 km (1,070 mi, 930 nmi)

That is, until Mars conquers all.... Martin JRM Mars 8,000 km (4,900 mi, 4,300 nmi)

It must have seemed incredible to fly those distances in the late 1930s to mid 40s.

The Dornier Do 26 "Seeadler" (Sea Eagle) had a range of 9,000 km (5,600 mi, 4,900 nmi) and I think is the winner by far.

It gained attention in 1939 when 580kg of relief medical supplies were sent to Chile after an earth quake there.

Lufthansa had tried to open direct flights between Germany-New York using Do 26 and also Berlin - New York and for the Fw 200 but the Roosevelt Administration refused.

 

[Simon Thomas]

The Boeing Clipper had a wiki range of 3,685 miles.
The Short Empire was on regular flights between the UK and Australia, obviously not non-stop. Cambria even popped into Toronto on one trip across the Atlantic.

 

[nuuumannn]

Berlin - New York and for the Fw 200 but the Roosevelt Administration refused.

Yes, the Germans, Japanese and Italians invested in long range operations before the war and flew impressive long range operations during the war itself - the Italians flew an SM.75 to Japan and back. The Fw 200 flight from Staaken to Floyd Bennett was certainly interesting and would have been a game changer had trans-continental flights begun, but it was flown by the type's prototype, so Lufthansa was not quite ready for scheduled flights between the USA and Germany yet. The same aircraft was also flown to Hanoi in French Indo-China but crashed in the sea making a flight to Manila and was recovered as a wreck.

 

[Admiral Beez]

The Boeing Clipper had a wiki range of 3,685 miles.
The Short Empire was on regular flights between the UK and Australia, obviously not non-stop. Cambria even popped into Toronto on one trip across the Atlantic.

Lieutenant-General Percival flew on a Short Sunderland from Britain to Singapore all in one run, less refueling stops. He was apparently exhausted on arrival.

I wonder how things would have played out had his Sunderland crashed and the General killed.

 

[Koopernic]

Yes, the Germans, Japanese and Italians invested in long range operations before the war and flew impressive long range operations during the war itself - the Italians flew an SM.75 to Japan and back. The Fw 200 flight from Staaken to Floyd Bennett was certainly interesting and would have been a game changer had trans-continental flights begun, but it was flown by the type's prototype, so Lufthansa was not quite ready for scheduled flights between the USA and Germany yet. The same aircraft was also flown to Hanoi in French Indo-China but crashed in the sea making a flight to Manila and was recovered as a wreck.

I suspect the UK and US simply didn't need quite as much ultra long range aircraft as they were better positioned or had easier political access to airfields.

 

[nuuumannn]

I suspect the UK and US simply didn't need quite as much ultra long range aircraft as they were better positioned or had easier political access to airfields.

Britain of course had an empire that spanned the globe and its aircraft could be based regionally to reinforce its territories, but the British did investigate long range travel throughout the 20s and 30s. In the 20s, a gaggle of Supermarine Southamptons flew stopovers to Australia and there was the Fairey Long Range Monoplane and the RAF routinely flew long distance flights in its Vickers Wellesley bombers.

US civil airlines, specifically Pan American had established a service using flying boats between the USA and New Zealand before the war using Sikorskis, Martins and eventually the big Boeing 314, which is a long way over water between stops. The Americans set up radio navigation stations throughout the Pacific to facilitate these routes. New Zealand flying boats (British Short Empire Class boats) flew routes around the Pacific Islands and these aircraft were impressed by the RNZAF into service as long range patrol aircraft.

I don't know if examining figures gives us the best indication of what these aircraft were capable of though, the Catalina had a very impressive endurance - when an RAF Catalina found the Bismarck out at sea it was airborne for a total of 13 hours.

 

[ThomasP]

PBY-4 Catalina had a range of just over 4000 miles with 1740 USgal fuel (no SSFT or armour). The PBY-5 had a range of just under 3000 miles with 1478 USgal fuel (603 USgal in SSFT and some armour). The empty weight increased from 15,000 lbs for the PBY-4 to 17,526 lbs for the PBY-5.

 

[Shortround6]

The later PBYs could be fitted with self sealing tanks that fit inside the original fuel spaces (integrated tanks?) and the possible combinations were two unprotected fuel tanks/spaces. One protected tank and one unprotected or both tanks protected. Obviously range varied quite a bit as ThomasP's post shows.

Do 26 was helped on those long range record flights by the fact it was catapult launched. It did not take-off just using it's own power.

for shorter range flights or the later versions (V4, V5 and V6 with higher powered engines?) it could operate on it's own. The record setting plane had no gun turret or gun positions.

I am very leery of record setting flights. Amelia Earhart's Lockheed 10 had a theoretical range of 4000 miles at 14,000lbs take-off weight.
The regular airline version had a range of 800 miles with 10 passengers at a weight of 10,500-11,000lbs.
Lockheed recommended the record setting plane/s to fly at 1000ft for the first 1000 miles while fuel was burned off.
Trying to estimate performance of the Lockheed 10 based on record flights is obviously not going to work well.
It may be the most extreme example there is.

 

[GrauGeist]

It seems that the 1920's was the decade that ushered in flying boats, one impressive type from that age being the Dornier Do.X

While long ranges were desired for commercial travel, they weren't a complete nessecity, as there were quite a few locations that had facilities specifically for flying boats - especially in the Pacific. Midway island was one such location.

One of the long-range champs of the trans-ocean routes would have been the Boeing 314 Clipper, too.

 

[pbehn]

Did they often hit things in the water?

 

[Admiral Beez]

Britain of course had an empire that spanned the globe and its aircraft could be based regionally to reinforce its territories,

Britain's vast network of islands across the Indo-Pacific presented an underutilized potential to project mobile power. Outside of PNG there were no British Empire airfields.

British Empire Map Room

The British Empire in the Pacific and Australasia

 

[nuuumannn]

Britain's vast network of islands across the Indo-Pacific presented an underutilized potential to project mobile power.

The problem with doing so was logistics. Almost all were very backward technologically with little or no facilities to enable such expansion to take place. Even today, there are inhabited islands in the Cooks group that don't have airports, electricity or plumbing etc and the only connection to the outside world is a boat from Rarotonga that sails every two weeks, and if the weather is too bad can't get there.

Most of these island nations didn't see their first aeroplanes until WW2 and afterwards. Fiji's first was a DH.60 floatplane Moth from New Zealand for example. Rarotonga in the Cook Islands didn't get its first airport until WW2, the first aircraft landing there was an RNZAF Lockheed Lodestar. Also, these islands are a looooong away away from each other. Rarotonga is roughly halfway between New Zealand and Hawai'i - today it's easy to get to, just a three hour flight from Auckland, but back then? The island is 15 miles across - it's not big, but used to be a major stop over for pax heading to the USA from the South Pacific in the 60s and 70s owing to the ranges of the aircraft available at the time.

 

[nuuumannn]

Did they often hit things in the water?

Yup, there are many cases of flying boats hitting stuff in the water, the RNZAF had several examples of Sunderlands striking submerged objects - the RNZAF were the last operator of the Sunderland, retiring them officially in 1967 with the receipt of P-3 Orions - quite a leap in capability. New Zealand's national airline TEAL operated flying boats until the early 60s on trans-pacific and trans-tasman routes and there are examples of outer wing floats being torn off because they hit something.

 

[Admiral Beez]

The problem with doing so was logistics. Almost all were very backward technologically with little or no facilities to enable such expansion to take place.

Good points, but the IJA were able to establish air bases on islands they captured from the British, these include:

Solomon Islands Henderson Field (Guadalcanal) - Wikipedia
Gilbert Islands Hawkins Field (Tarawa) - Wikipedia
New Britain, Rabaul airbase Pacific Wrecks

The British Empire in the Pacific and Australasia

 

[nuuumannn]

Good points, but the IJA were able to establish air bases on islands they captured from the British, these include:

Yup, great, that's the Japanese shipping supplies and what have you to do so. These things didn't just happen as a result of colonisation. The Brits didn't just go to the islands it occupied and start building airfields and military facilities. In fact they did nothing of the sort. It took a vast logistical effort for the Japanese to do that. Let's put it this way, at the outbreak of war the New Zealand and Australian governments complained about the lack of facilities they had from Britain - to this day there are people in Aussie that hold the view that Britain abandoned it, particularly after the invasion of Singapore. In New Zealand and Australia, airfields were constructed, but by local works firms, not the British and inspired by local needs. Once the Americans arrived, facilities sponsored by the Americans began, but again the large engineering projects were done by local labour.

This stuff didn't happen in the eastern Pacific. There were no British military bases in that area. That map you provided even states that the eastern Pacific went largely untouched during the war, although, like I said, the RNZAF built airfields and seaplane bases on some of the islands and the US had a garrison in American Samoa. The University of the South Pacific is located at Laucala Bay, a former RNZAF flying boat base.

here is an interesting article on Radio New Zealand's website, with a pic of an RNZAF Short Singapore flying boat at Laucala Bay.

After 50 years, a return to Laucala Bay amid warming NZ-Fiji relations

 

[GrauGeist]

The U.S. built flying boat waystations across the Pacific, which became military outposts during WWII - many of which, the Japanese seized, or tried to seize.
Midway, Wake, Guam and so on.

 

[Graeme]

New Britain, Rabaul airbase Pacific Wrecks

Taken by my father in Rabaul. Possibly very late 1945 (I'll never know for sure).
One very dead Emily...

 

[nuuumannn]

The U.S. built flying boat waystations across the Pacific, which became military outposts during WWII - many of which, the Japanese seized, or tried to seize.

By contrast the US presence in the Pacific was big. As I said earlier, the US had been operating long range flying boats between the USA and New Zealand before WW2. Britain's only presense outside of Singapore, apart from embassies, was the Royal Navy in New Zealand. The RNZN didn't come into effect until 1942, so before then it was known as the New Zealand Div of the RN. Ayt the outbreak of war the Kiwis had based locally two modern cruisers, the Leander and Achilles, three Great War era light cruisers and a few pre-Great War patrol boats. The RNZAF, an independent air force's most modern aircraft was the Hawker Hind, although it had some Wildebeests and Vincents, Fairey Gordons, Blackburn Baffins and a handful of Short Singapore flying boats. Its only single-seat fighters were three unarmed Gloster Grebes. The airlines operated more modern aircraft, Lockheed Electras and Short Empire flying boats.

Much to the consternation of the British government, the New Zealand government made a trade agreement with the USA during the war for the supply of weaponry - it helped that New Zealand Prime Minister Peter Fraser was friends with Roosevelt and he and his wife actually visited New Zealand for holidays during the war, staying with the Frasers. The Brits were not happy with this at all, but from it, the RNZAF reaped the best of the benefits, P-40s, Hudsons, Venturas, AT-6s, PBYs, C-47s, Lodestars, Avengers, Dauntlesses, Corsairs and P-51s, although those didn't arrive in time for the war and were largely kept crated until after the war.

It wasn't without justification that Pacific nations felt Britain had abandoned them.

 

[GrauGeist]

Britain had no one to blame but themselves, to be honest.