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Discussion in 'WW2 General' started by Torch, Mar 26, 2009.
Unfortunately you will find a lot of those horrible places..
Treblinka, Majdanek, Auschwitz, Sachsenhausen, Buchenwald to name only a few of them.. As i wrote in another thread... This are things we should NEVER forget and what NEVER happen again!
But in fact.. We also should don´t forget that there are also other places where also horrible things happened.
I don´t want to make any "politic" or something else.. only facts..
Remember Katyn.. and as only one sample the Indians in the USA..
That are also things that NEVER should be forgotten.
Maybe someone now will shout "What have this German for rights to tell this!"
Well.. I´m the "next generation". I know very well what happened .. And i never forget this! But please Gentlemen... Look at all sides! Thank you!
Hey my Grandparents were German, I don't hold any grudges. My father was taken from his home near Lublin to work on a labor farm near Leipzig, had it tough. Returned for the first time 4 or 5 years ago and the farmers kid and wife remembered him and broke bread and are friends now. My family on my mothers side was Jewish,caught hell from Berlin, to France,to Krakow, to Shanghai, to Montevideo. Theres no way I can harbor ill will towards Germans. I still have relatives in Germany, Austria. I married a 1/2 German girl. Just sharing some moments that have stuck in my mind.
I hope i haven´t wrote something that could be misunderstood...
Maybe i haven´t found the right words in english..
I will say that such a theme is absolutely ok.. We all should remember that!
And also i won´t say that anyone hold any grudges... The thing i mean is that we should have a look in all directions..
The history made us all wiser.. And it´s up to us that those things never happend again..
Yes , I understand, I could be very bitter to what my grandmother had to do to protect my grandfather from the SS. but I look at it this way, it's in the past,lessons have been learned(hopefully), lets move on and hope that it never happens again but pictures,stories etc can only benefit people that want to learn and grow from the experience.
First Torch, thanks for posting the pics.
Hesekiel, how can anybody learn about anything if you have a generic view of things. How does a thread about a certain place during the war in the mid 20th Century include cowboys and Indians? Why be interested in history at all if we downplay it to "some people fought some other people"?
I want to thank Torch because I have never heard of this place and my GF is Jewish and one member of her family survived this. I think this should be just as it is, a few pics of a horrible place. It should shout "Look what man can do to man" and not what a country did.
I don't think anybody here will disagree with either of you, Torch and Hesekiel. And most everybody here knows that it wasn't the German people as a whole, but the Nazi regieme that did these things. Terrible, horrific places that they are, they MUST remain standing as a brutal reminder of the atrocities man can commit against man, if allowed...and to keep us from growing too complacent and allowing these things to ever happen again. I'm not tryin to put down the German nation at the time, I wasn't there and therefore I can't judge anyone...But the lessons of the past need to be learned, not forgotten...especially this lesson. Most especially.
Thanks RA.. This is what i mean!
Those places should be a reminder forever..
What i also would like to say that there are a lot of other places that are should be a memorial too.. Won´t be willing to "minimize" the horrible things that happened in this period in Germany!!
But i think we also should not forget that nearly every nation have those places and nearly every nation have to weep bitter tears of things happened in their history....
This was the reason i gave the (only two) exaples in my post before..
I don't think there are any countries who have a "clean" record with regards to these kind of things. I didn't know that Majdanek still had the old barracks. Another grim reminder of how we human beings can have disregard for other human beings.
Majdanek has about all its original buildings, from the ovens to the guard towers, fences,barracks and gas chambers...
Very sobering pictures Torch. Thanks for sharing them.
I'm like Njaco, I haven't heard of this place either. Thanks for posting these pics, Torch.
First off, this in not meant as a slam to Hesekiel, because I agree with him.
This is just something that has bugged me for a long time.
So here is a history lesson that is not taught in these days of political correctness.
Americans are constantly blamed for what was done to the natives that inhabited this continent. That is a convenient widely held bit of misinformation.
The people who settled this land were Western Europeans. They came here looking for riches and a new life. They conquered the inhabitants who were already here. (They also brought the horrible institution of slavery with them) Settlers came here (South and North America) as early as 1500. Almost four generations later were the first born "Americans" and yes the genocide continued, but that is what they were taught to do by their forefathers. That generation gave 500,000 lives to rid our country of slavery. Soon they also saw the error of the past treatment of the Native Americans. It is incorrect to use our modern morality to judge those in the past. We can only learn from their mistakes.
Like the post war generation in Germany, later generations of Americans should feel no blame for what went on in the past. Yet I find many PC Europeans looking down their nose and pointing their fingers at us, as if their past has no flaws.
BTW, my parents are immigrants. They came here to find riches and to start a new life... in 1947.
Good point. Personally, I don't feel any guilt about either slavery in the US nor the treatment of Native Americans, since neither I nor my ancestors participated in either. I don't believe I owe anyone anything for past actions. I don't feel that current generations of those who suffered are owed anything, either, since they themselves were not slaves or massacred/herded into reservations. By keeping themselves tied to the past, they are limiting their own futures, nobody else is "keeping them down". They all have the same opportunities to advance as anybody else....better, in some cases, because of "minority quotas" that have to be filled. All they have to do is get off their collective butts and start workin and stop expecting handouts.
That being said, I don't want the US to ever forget what we did in the past, so that we can ensure it never happens again in the future. But it was IN THE PAST. Leave it there and move on.