Man, talk about a girl with GUTS ! (1 Viewer)

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I do understand the outrage that people feel, its justified. i remeber one case I was involved with....was a male brotherl that forced bys as young as 9 years old into the sex trade, and kept them there by drugs mostly. At the beginning the DPP (department Of Public prosecutions) was all in favour of throwing the book at the patrons, and the operators, until they relaized that we intended to prosecute a prominent politician, and a supreme court judge. We were never alowed to take the case to court. Can you imagine how that made me feel? I wanted to take the law into my own hands right there and then.....and there was nothing wrong with our case either...we were never given a reason for the decision
My point is this...the system is just too imperfect to impose the death penalty, and anyway it fails to deliver what it promises. you do not safeguard society by killing your state wards
 
Life sentence should mean life though, they should make parole hearings every 25 years in cases like this unless there is exceptional new evidence...

Killing people like that means nothing, because life means nothing to them. It is far better imho to lock them away forever, because that way there is no hope, no speedy resolution, just an endless drag of days until they get taken out in a box...

Of course it's more satisfying to fry them, but the State needs to be morally superior to the criminal, and eventually there will be no Death Penalty in any country, because it just does not work as a deterrent imo...
 
I do not think Parsifal that it is quite that high here on death row stateside I would believe maybe 5% though.But back to the point of the death penalty I would all be for forgoing it if Life in prison met life in prison.The fact that some of these guys get the perks they do is beyond comprehension this is punishment.Maybe if our prisons operated like like those in Thailand were no reading,excerise and food with flies on it might make some crimals actully think twice.If the criminal commits a crime worthy of 25yrs he will die there for lost of desire to live.Then the crimal gets two appeals in the first five years after that its over unless new evidence shows up.
 

God i would laugh if ever you get falsely accused, tried and sent to the fryer screaming like a stuck pig that you were innocent, knowing that the prosecutor knew you were innocent, but because the system is not interested in justice, just in upholding the law, and the system has someone to blame, then you will do.

...

Do you beleive everything you read in the Newspaper?? Oh I forgot, you support the death penalty, of course you do


Parsifal, you are walking a fine line here and you better put that attitude in check. Now.
 
Death penalty is useless because it takes 20+ years to hang 'em. And keeping them in for life is useless because parole, parole, parole.

But it is the best system we have until something better comes along and that hasn't happened yet.

Parsifal, I, too, have tried to put scumbags away only to see a slap on the wrist. But you can't give up and let the monkeys have free reign.
 
I just had an other idea for sentencing...

When a murderer/rapist is found guilty, I suggest we offer him two choices : be hanged within two weeks or serve 15 years in the Foreign Legion. Now, that is a good deal, no ? Like most "Legioneers" end up in coffins anyway, I bet he'll choose the rope.
 
In New South Wales legislation was passed in 1989 which attempted to introduce "Truth In Sentencing". The aim of this legislation, was to limit the effects of Parole Boards, "Good Behaviours" and the like. It severely restricted the ability of Parole Boards to release prisoners on "Community Sevice Orders"

Subsequently the NSW Government introduced further legislation that laid down mandatory terms for serious offences such as rape and murder.

Unfortunately, and as usual, the judiciary reacted violently to this attack on their "independance" and has managed to have the effect of this legislation somewhat restricted. However, the sentenceing tems for serious offences has increased. From memory, someone convicted of Manslaughter, will on average now seve anout 16 years Gaol, compared to about 12 years under the old Probationary Crimes Act of 1983.

The legislation has only been partially successful, but IMO it points the way to dealing with serious crime, without the need to murder innocent (potenitally) people. If you commit this crime, you are going to serve this amount of time, and no amount of money or influence is going to get you out of gaol...

The other thing that needs to be overhauled is the fairness of the system. Too many people in Australia of non-white, poor extraction are "railroaded to gaol, whilst rich, all white folks get off very easily. For the system to work better, it has to be fair, and the judiciary needs a thorough ovehaul in the way that it thinks.

Anyway, here is the link if you are interested

http://www.dcs.nsw.gov.au/information/research_and_statistics/research_publication/rp022.pdf
 
Nah... Bullets are expensive. Use the good ol' rope and hang that @sshole.

But you'll have to spend money on building the rig. Just use good old surplus ammo then lets be rid of all those assholes. Against a firing squad there is atleast no chance of surviving your sentence like there is with the electric chair, and it's cheaper than lethal injection.

The law should be that if there is outstanding evidence to ensure with 100% certainty that the guy is guilty of murder, then death by firing squad should be the sentence. Otherwise life time in jail (And I mean until dead with no parole) should be the sentence, that way if the person is innocent there's a chance to prove it.
 
I have an idea - What about the death penalty for those that we know are guilty. I understand Parsifal's concern but is there no question about Charles Manson's guilt, Ted Kazinski's guilt and others that we know without a doubt did it? I'm tired of paying for these lowlifes to breathe another minute.

Euthanize them.

Then wake up the Justice system to the fact that pedofiles cannot be cured. End of story. So let them take the place of the Mansons and Kazinksis and keep them locked up for life. Thats a price I will pay to keep my daughter and my sons safe.
 
Then wake up the Justice system to the fact that pedofiles cannot be cured
and that is the truth there Njaco my sister a die hard Lib/Dem use to work with these exact types in the FL Pent System and those were her exact words "they cannot be reformed".She was even attacked at the prison once by one of these perps.She now teaches kids with learning problems in FL.
 
May be, but the rig is like the rope : re-usable.

Aah come on! I mean how much can it cost to blow away these lowlifes when compared to the cost of keeping them alive ?

You want a really cost effective execution tool with a 100% death everytime guarantee, then bring on the guillotine :D The french actually used it up until the late 70's as their official execution device.
 
How about stick them on an oil tanker or cargo ship, middle of the Atlantic of Pacific tell them to jump or push them off. What cost in that? :)

Ain't that the truth, Javelin, and its a miscarriage of Justice when I see these freaks let loose as "rehabbed". Ain't no such thing!
 
Jailhouse justice. Put a tattoo across their forehead that labels them as a child molester and put them in jail with the general prison population.

Your tax dollars won't be spent keeping them alive for very long.

TO
 
The death penalty isn't going to save us money

Study Concludes Death Penalty is Costly Policy
In its review of death penalty expenses, the State of Kansas concluded that capital cases are 70% more expensive than comparable non-death penalty cases. The study counted death penalty case costs through to execution and found that the median death penalty case costs $1.26 million. Non-death penalty cases were counted through to the end of incarceration and were found to have a median cost of $740,000. For death penalty cases, the pre-trial and trial level expenses were the most expensive part, 49% of the total cost. The costs of appeals were 29% of the total expense, and the incarceration and execution costs accounted for the remaining 22%.

source Costs of the Death Penalty

It's a hard one, when I see some of the reports on TV the instant reaction is that they've committed such a heinous crime that they've forfeited the right to live. Problem is, look at the cold facts and the case becomes weaker. It isn't a deterrent as very few murders are planned, they are normally heat of the moment. Then there is the problem of where to draw the line. Let's say all peadophiles should be executed. Ok, if you're talking about a child molester then it's hard to disagree. But if you say all of them, then do you include a person who slept with someone a week under the age of consent, who told him otherwise? Thing is,every case is different and you can't just say 'x should be punished with y'.

You could also say that execution is the easiest way out. Perhaps a more fitting punishment would be to let them rot in jail for the rest of their lives. It's a tough one; you could say serious crimes deserve it, but how do you define serious?
 
Serious would be someone who has molested more than one child during his life. Of course the Vatican might collapse.

Serious is someone who has killed someone so violent and heinous that there should be no doubt that they take another breath.

I'm not talking about car accidents that kill or an 18 yr old with a 16 yr old girlfriend.

But should Tim McVeigh sat in prison for 60= years?
Ted Bundy?
Ted Kazinsky?
Charles Manson?
David Berkowitz?
Charles Chitat Ng?
Karla Homolka?

the list goes on and on.

You want serious. Google that last name. Its disgusting she still btreathes.
 
Serious would be someone who has molested more than one child during his life. Of course the Vatican might collapse.

Serious is someone who has killed someone so violent and heinous that there should be no doubt that they take another breath.

I'm not talking about car accidents that kill or an 18 yr old with a 16 yr old girlfriend.

But should Tim McVeigh sat in prison for 60= years?
Ted Bundy?
Ted Kazinsky?
Charles Manson?
David Berkowitz?
Charles Chitat Ng?
Karla Homolka?

the list goes on and on.

You want serious. Google that last name. Its disgusting she still btreathes.

NJ

The whole debate centres around what is approprite state respopnse to violent crime. To break it down to absolute basic theory its a mixture of justice, retribtion and rehabilitation. To this has to be added the abilty of the system to get its right, the error rate if you like.

Essentially what you are saying is that if there is no hope for rehabilitation, then all effort ought to be put into the retribution side of things. Maybe. But what about the error rate problem. Also, I still dont think that killing your state wards does much to make society safer. Potential perps on the outside are just going to get even more desperate if they know they are going to die if caught.

To me, life should be life, and mandatory sentencing is part of the answer. The system is otherwise unfair, with poor folks getting the maximum sentence, and rich ones, able to hire a good lawyer and get away with murder (aka that black guy ex football player in LA)
 
It's not about retribution, it's about making our societies safer. Guys like Bundy and Manson are nut cases that would surely kill again if given a chance. So you lock them up and throw away the key. Okay, and what happens when someone like that escapes?

People always talk about the innocent what ifs in death penalty cases. Do you not think there are people on LWOP sentences that may be innocent? The innocents here are the poor victims of these heinous crimes.

Mandatory sentencing only goes into effect after a person is convicted. Mandatory sentencing would have made ZERO difference in the OJ case because he was acquitted.
 
It's not about retribution, it's about making our societies safer. Guys like Bundy and Manson are nut cases that would surely kill again if given a chance. So you lock them up and throw away the key. Okay, and what happens when someone like that escapes?

Retribution is part of the penal system....you do the crime, you do the time, as they say.

If Manson or Bundy escapes, they will kill again I agree, but where does this end. Killing a Manson or a Bundy type appears justified, but in a way it martyrs them as well, and in awarped twisted way encourages other drop kicks to emulate them, to achive notoriety and celebrity. Sick but true

People always talk about the innocent what ifs in death penalty cases. Do you not think there are people on LWOP sentences that may be innocent? The innocents here are the poor victims of these heinous crimes.

Yes I do, but at least there is the possibilty of overturning a wrongful conviction. Death kinda introduces a finality to the whole thing.
The victims are the victims. But putting away or killing the wrong person doesnt help that. Neither does imposing a manifestly inadequate sentence, and neither does justice get served by having a system that favours the rich and powerful. Uniformity in sentencing has to be part of the solution, as is some kind of equity in the trial process.

The trick is to be fair, but firm, and consistent. Also the system needs to set the example. If it sets the example by killing people, how can you expect the societty it serves to react any differently.

This is a very difficult issue, and one that everyone, including me tends to get emotional about. But there are no easy fixes. The lynch mob mentality that you can see in this thread by some, is only going to hurt the society it is trying to protect, IMO

Mandatory sentencing only goes into effect after a person is convicted. Mandatory sentencing would have made ZERO difference in the OJ case because he was acquitted.

Yes, I was mistaken, however, do you think that the averge Joe with his local family attorney or no attorney would have achieved the same result in the OJ case?
 

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