The LW were unable to continue attacking airfields because of the bomber losses they suffered. Goering brief was to destroy Fighter Command, he didnt come anywhere near achieving this. RAF FC. numerical strength increased throughout the battle while the LW bomber strength declined. The big raids on London in September involved almost all of Goerings serviceable bombers, 200 in total of a mixed bag of types.
Maneuverability vs Speed
- Thread starter JoblinTheGoblin
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All the Siberian transfer did was bring more bodies to be used up. The most important thing we did was mobilize their army via the 600,000 trucks. The Germans logistics tail was still primarily horse drawn.
No, they could have continued attacking the airfields. They chose not to, thankfully, because one of their Home cities got bombed by accident. Simply strafing the airfields would have been sufficient to keep the fighters down, which would have allowed an invasion to be launched.
Shortround6
Major General
Well we are getting to old argument between the west saved Russia and Russian did it all on her own and didn't the help the west.
The truth lies somewhere..................................................................................................................................................between?
The truth lies somewhere..................................................................................................................................................between?
No it wouldnt and no it wouldnt. Only one airfield was temporarily abandoned during the BoB, frequently the LW were not even attacking fighter airfields. Even when they were attacking airfields they suffered unsustainable losses and didnt affect RAF strength at all, though pilot quality did drop. Simply straffing airfields sounds great, the airfields were not defenceless and straffing them incurred losses.
Shortround6
Major General
Right into the jaws of the channel weather, sea conditions, and that small band drunken sots that called themselves the Royal Navy which the Kriegsmarine thought they had finished off up in Norway.
Big time 'disagree' on the last sentence there.
Thumpalumpacus
Major
Agreed that the German switch to bombing London was a blunder. I disagree that they could have achieved the air superiority needed to launch Sea Lion, especially by simply strafing.
Which is fine, these are opinions after all. But the simple fact remains that the British have said many times that the Germans switching to the cities helped them. It is also well known that the Germans did it in retaliation for the errant bombing.
Yeah, that is a rather broad generalization I am making, but the lack of bombers could be made up by Jabo's, which eventually did happen.
It is however not arguable that post Dunkirk, there really wasn't much that the Brits could have done for about 5 months if the Germans had decided to make the crossing. The RAF truly did hold the final line of defense. And hold it well they did.
Thumpalumpacus
Major
The issue the LW has is keeping the RN off the invasion fleet's neck. You can suppress 11 Group, but you'll still need to escort LW bombers striking at the RN because 12 Group's bases are far out of range of any jabo/escort activity, but 12 Gr can still cover the southward move of the Home Fleet. I don't think the LW had enough fighters to do both missions.
Results in my thinking are that Home Fleet comes south, lets loose the destroyers, and Sea Lion turns into sea-layings. FC disrupts LW bomber strikes, and the RN handles bidness.
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Shortround6
Major General
The Brits had not committed all of their naval forces to Dunkirk, far from it. And the Kriegsmarine had darn few ships larger that trawlers that were serviceable in the summer of 1940. They were patching things together as fast as they could but those pesky British submarines had put torpedoes into a number of the large German units and most the destroyers that made it back also needed repairs and again, anything of any size was in Germany, not in Belgium or Holland and would need more time to reach the area of operations that a lot the British fleet would.
Germany army needed several months over the summer just restock ammo, refill fuel tanks and repair tanks and trucks broken down in the BOF.
Yes, pretty much. The one thing that the Germans had going for them at that time though was a very professional U-Boat service. It wouldn't have been a walk in the park for the RN. They hadn't developed all of the technologies that later defeated the U-Boats.
I'm talking about the British ground forces. Post Dunkirk they were so out of weapons that they asked for American civilians to donate firearms.
Vintage Saturday: Send a Gun to Defend a British Home!
Vintage Saturday: Send a Gun to Defend a British Home! - Forgotten Weapons
"When the ships from America approached our shores with their priceless arms special trains were waiting in all the ports to receive their cargoes," Churchill recalled. "The Home Guard in every county, in every town, in every village, sat up all through the night to receive them.... By the end...
www.forgottenweapons.com
Thumpalumpacus
Major
How many of them were in the North Sea at the time? I honestly don't know and am asking to clarify. Could they be routed through minefields, etc?
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
No.
Thumpalumpacus
Major
Not to mention that an unsung contribution of the RAF was Bomber Command's striking of harbors resulting in a continual drain on German bottoms, sunk or damaged in harbor while said restocking was going on.
What did they achieve?, if you took them out of the war would anything have changed?. Look at the Spitfire and Hurricane, I bet every other country would have put the best engine in the Spitfire and left the Hurricane to it's fate, one great fighter and one ordinary one but not the British, they gave both the best chance and what happened, two great fighters resulted, that's how you win. Like the Germans the Japanese should have focused on steady design improvements keeping their equipment at the top instead of wasting time on wonder weapons.
Thumpalumpacus
Major
I'm talking about the British ground forces. Post Dunkirk they were so out of weapons that they asked for American civilians to donate firearms.
Vintage Saturday: Send a Gun to Defend a British Home!
Vintage Saturday: Send a Gun to Defend a British Home! - Forgotten Weapons
"When the ships from America approached our shores with their priceless arms special trains were waiting in all the ports to receive their cargoes," Churchill recalled. "The Home Guard in every county, in every town, in every village, sat up all through the night to receive them.... By the end...
The first problem the Germans have is getting troops ashore in numbers to quell the country. Once on land, sure, they've got a fighting chance. But you've got to get them there, past the RN and RAF.
Look at the preparations the Allies felt needed to launch Overlord -- granted, against tougher defenses, but still, if you want to put eight or ten divisions across the beach you need air superiority, sea control, dedicated equipment, doctrine, and more than a bit of luck.
As an improvisation, Sea Lion would have needed a lot of luck.
As crummy a strategist as Churchill could be, his explication of German difficulties opposed to British advantages in Their Finest Hour is very on-point. Their navy was battered, their air force was battered, their army was reorganizing after running hither and yon across France -- and while Britain was denuded of armor and heavy weapons, America was shipping tens of thousands of rifles, and a couple thousand 75s, mos' skosh. And all that was happening behind the shield of Fighter Command and the steel walls of the RN.
