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Hey GregP,
I may be misunderstanding what you are saying, but in case i am not:
The G4M design was specified with the ability to carry 1x air dropped torpedo or 2000 kg of bombs. As such, there was no adapting needed. In effect it was specified as a torpedo-bomber, in a similar manner to the B5N Kate. (I suppose you could claim it was a bomber-torpedoer, but torpedo-bomber sounds better.)
The GM41 model 12 got rubber sheeting under the wing tanks, nothing on top, with rubber sheeting and sponge to protect the fuselage tanks. They did fit a CO2 system to all tanks.Considering the losses B17's sustained do you really thinkunprotectedpoorly protected Betty's doing only 220mph at 6,000ft would have not suffered worse losses?
Thats the difference, the British wouldn't have launched the mission knowing the losses of aircrew would be too high, same as they would never compromise the protection of the pilot for range. Hypothetical, would you fly in the BoB against 8 gunned Spitfires in an A6M?, here's your seat by the way, the holes are to make it lighter, improves range.About the same as if it had been Wellingtons or Sterlings or Lancasters flying during daytime, escorted by... anything.
The normal G.55 had the radiator under the fuselage.They rigged a Fiat G.55 S Centauro to be a torpedo bomber, too. See below:
But it was not normally one and the rigging was not put onto many G.55s. The G.55 S didn't even retain it when not needed.
G4M1s (probably model 12) flew a series of high altitude bombing missions over Australia (Darwin), Max bombing altitude was ~29k ft against the USAAF base at Fenton.Considering the losses B17's sustained do you really think unprotected Betty's doing only 220mph at 6,000ft would have not suffered worse losses?, how would the 350mph A6M's stop 420mph FW190A's from doing whatever they wanted whenever they wanted?, regarding maneuverability and speed, against the A6M the Anton had both.
The G4M wasa twin-engine, land-based, medium bomber that was adapted for torpedos when so required. It was not designed primarily as a torpedo bomber, but was adapted as one. It was decently high-speed for when it first flew, but "high-speed" in 1939 was not the same thing as "high-speed" in 1944, as we all know.
At Guadalcanal, the Japanese lost 100 G4Ms with crew and there were no replacements available.
The G4M was not a bad aircraft, but its design was also not very adaptable as far keeping it current with fighter aircraft was concerned. It started out with 1,530 hp Mitsubishi Kasei Model 11 engines and went to Kasei 21s, Kasei 25s, and Kasei 27s, eventually with 1,820 Kasei 27bs engines. The horsepower increase did not quite keep up with weight increases. The late-war Betty was sort of like a late-war Wellington ... OK but not exactly top-tier equipment by that time.
Much the same could be said for many medium bombers. Some "kept-up," many did not.
A late-war A-26 Invader was a completely different animal from a G6M Betty. The A-26 could hit near 360 mph and that made it tough to catch for most fighters, especially down low. The Betty was maxed out at 265 mph and couldn't escape from even P-40. But, if it got through, the Betty could hit you about like an A-20, with about 2,000 pounds of bombs. It was very A-20-like in performance, but slower by about 50 mph.
Basically, that's what I said about the G.55 S, Shortround. ?The normal G.55 had the radiator under the fuselage.
The G.55 S had split radiators under the wing roots.
The Beaufort was a torpedo bomber. It dropped a lot more bombs than it ever did torpedoes. The underside of the fuselage was configured to carry the torpedo, it extended for and aft of the 'normal' bomb bay.
There were a lot of bombers that needed special adaptors or mounts to carry out of the ordinary bombs.
Kind of hard to figure out without documentation from the Japanese.
Was it for long range recon?
Long range over water bombing?
Long range torpedo bombing (naval bombing, whatever that is) ?
Long range over land penetrations?
Whatever it was, the ability of the G4M to defend itself was clearly lacking.
The first 30 "production" planes were built as heavy escorts for the G3Ms but weren't fast enough to keep up with them once they had dropped their bombs.
First bombing raids were in the late spring or early summer of 1941 over China and hundreds of miles from blue water.
Once they ran into even average Western fighters losses mounted. With no passive protection, 4900 liters of fuel and four Lewis guns and a single slow firing, hand aimed 20mm cannon with 15 round magazines, and a cruising speed of around 200mph the idea they could operate without fighter support was crazy, And the A6M never had the range to escort the G4M to the extent of it's range (although the book ranges maybe incorrect, like max range was without bombs as the G4M1 had a gross weight of about 21,000lbs and 4900 liters of fuel is over 7700lbs of fuel) in plane that was supposed to weigh just under 15,000lb empty.
Considering the losses B17's sustained do you really think unprotected Betty's doing only 220mph at 6,000ft would have not suffered worse losses?, how would the 350mph A6M's stop 420mph FW190A's from doing whatever they wanted whenever they wanted?, regarding maneuverability and speed, against the A6M the Anton had both.
Thats the difference, the British wouldn't have launched the mission knowing the losses of aircrew would be too high, same as they would never compromise the protection of the pilot for range. Hypothetical, would you fly in the BoB against 8 gunned Spitfires in an A6M?, here's your seat by the way, the holes are to make it lighter, improves range. View attachment 727213
Again we are lumping all A6Ms together here.
The A6M2 had some definite limitations over much of 1942, a main one for both fleet defense and long range air combat (bomber escort) was the 60 rounds per gun limitation of the 20mm cannon. It turns out that wasn't enough. The Japanese tried to cover that with fast deck handling and reloads but having CAP fighters that could engage the enemy for twice as many seconds may have payed big dividends.
The A6M3 32 couldn't reach Guadalcanal with it's greater ammo capacity. The A6M3 22 could but it was late, I don't know if they could fit the new magazines to the older A6M2 fighters. I haven't read anything either way.
A pair of 7.7mm Vickers guns was not enough after the 20mms ran out of ammo. Yes they shot down some aircraft but the P-39, P-40 and F4F established a reputation for being able to absorb gunfire and stay in the air (or at least not crashing). Of course if they had performed better perhaps they wouldn't have been shot up as bad.
Using two fighters to get 240 20mm shells to the battle site is not efficiency. An F4F-3 had close to the same firepower as an A6M2 except it's firepower lasted for just over 30 seconds not under 7 seconds.
Both sides needed fighters that would do more. The A6M2 ran out of offensive firepower before it ran out of fuel.
The Allied fighters ran out of airspeed/altitude (firing position) before they ran out of ammo.
Allied fighters could engage and shoot down multiple Japanese bombers in one mission. Mediocre but long lasting armament vs poor protection.
Basically, that's what I said about the G.55 S, Shortround. ?
I didn't include radiator differences because it wasn't necessary, I mentioned it because the G.55S was an occasional torpedo bomber, when needed. It wasn't a dedicated torpedo bomber, same as the G4M, which ALSO wasn't a dedicated torpedo bomber.
For some reason that I have no explanation for the Japanese never or almost never, built a 2 engine bomber that carried more than 1000kg (2205lbs) of bombs,I would say that the G4M was a torpedo bomber which could also work as a light bomber of airfields and ports.
But no Fulmars, Swordfish, Skuas or SeaHurricanes.I got news for you, the US lost a whole lot of P-39s, F2As, F4Fs, SBDs, TBDs, TBFs, B-26s, P-40s, Hudsons, etc. etc. in the first year of the Pacific War. Attrition rates were high all around, including and especially at Guadalcanal.
The time of fire varied a bit depending on the gun. Hispano 60 round drum lasted about 6 seconds because it fired faster.You seem to suggest here that somewhat limited ammunition for the 20mm cannon was unusual. That 60 round drum was not, in fact rare.
The Spitfire Mk VB, which was still flying and fighting in the Med in 1943, had this ammunition system for their 20mm cannon.
The Bf 109E had them too, though these were being phased out by the Germans in the Med in early 1942.
I believe the early Bf 110s had those 60 round drums too. As did the French D.520, many other planes.
7 seconds of cannon ammunition doesn't sound like a lot, but cannons do a lot more damage than machine guns as we have often discussed around here. How many seconds of cannon fire does it take to shoot down an enemy plane?
Amount of ammo varied by gun and plane. Hurricanes held about 90 (in belts, not large drums) Spitfires stayed at about 120 until the later Griffon models. 20mm Hispano is heavy, especially for four guns. Typhoon had 140(?). P-38 held 150 rounds. By 1944-45 with even bigger engines the USN was putting in around 200.But I do agree it was a limitation, it was much better to have 100+ rounds for 20mm by early 1943. By later 1943 I think 200 rounds was more common.
This also varied with the type of plane and the time. Yes they had quite a bit of trouble in early 1942, got better even if not totally solved. Some planes got better quicker than others.The US planes in the Pacific did not have 20mm and had a fairly large amount of ammunition, but they did have another related problem in that their M2 .50 cal machine guns often jammed, especially if fired while pulling G. This was only gradually improved toward the end of 1943.
The lack of ammo in the A6M2 was not unusual but it was old. The Germans didn't like it in the BoB, At times they ran out of ammo before they ran out of fuel. And the two 7.9s in the cowl was not enough. Germans carried double the amount of ammo as the A6M2 did for it's machineguns. 30 seconds of firing time was too much. You ran out of 20mm ammo 23 seconds earlier. or over 7 firing opportunities earlier.I would say that the limited ammunition in the A6M2 was indeed a problem, but I would debate the implication or contention that it was an unusual, let alone unique problem.
But no Fulmars, Swordfish, Skuas or SeaHurricanes.
It was a land-based medium bomber that could occasionally carry a torpedo. Go look at the photos of Betty bombers. You won't find any showing a torpedo or torpedo loading. The only torpedo depictions you see are artwork drawings.I would say that the G4M was a torpedo bomber which could also work as a light bomber of airfields and ports.
How was the accuracy from that altitude?, I'm assuming not good.29k ft against the USAAF base at Fenton.
So range somehow makes your impervious?, there is nothing the A6M would do that the Spit and 109 didn't do, except get shot down easier.A6M would be high on my list. I believe it would handle the Spitfire 1 fairly well, it was as well armed as a 109E, but had almost three times the range, meaning a lot more operational flexibility, and I wouldn't be thinking about running out of gas.
Only when they worked, the biggest problem with the early cannons was not just the limited ammunition but unreliable ammunition, fuzes took a lot of sorting out, as for shooting down planes, you better be a damn good shot to knock down more than one plane with 7 seconds of ammunition, you'll use 2 seconds for your first burst, correct your aim and then another 2 seconds looking for strikes then immediately the rest for the kill.7 seconds of cannon ammunition doesn't sound like a lot, but cannons do a lot more damage than machine guns as we have often discussed around here. How many seconds of cannon fire does it take to shoot down an enemy plane?