ME 109 or BF 109?

[Camarogenius]

Are these just different nomenclatures, or are they two different planes?

 

[Erich]

same plane. Bf is the proper designation

 

[Hunter368]

Are these just different nomenclatures, or are they two different planes?

Western world often referred to it as the ME 109, Germans called (correctly) BF 109. But either is eccepted and understood.

 

[cheddar cheese]

I believe the Bf- designation was last applied with the Bf-162 Schnellbomber...All further Messerschmitt designs were allocated the Me- designation...

 

[Camarogenius]

Thankyou, Gentlemen.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Yes after the Bf-162 they redisignated them to the Me. Such as the Me-163. Also all other aircraft built after a specific date, which I believe was in 1943 were all called Me's except for new varients of the Bf-109. Some people call the Bf-109G the Me-109G. Bf is actually correct, but as NS said Me is also understood and no one gets beat up for it.

 

[P38 Pilot]

Yeah. I actually prefered Me-109 because Messerschmitt made a lot of German fighters during the war. Name is best understood.

 

[book1182]

Yeah. I actually prefered Me-109 because Messerschmitt made a lot of German fighters during the war. Name is best understood.

I agree!!! Me-109 puts fear into me when I hear it.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Not me I prefer it the correct way. Bf-109. I like accuracy.

 

[Gnomey]

Not me I prefer it the correct way. Bf-109. I like accuracy.

That is the way I prefer it aswell.

 

[Gemhorse]

I got questioned about this some months ago and couldn't lay my hands on the answer then.....

In the 1930's during the expansion of the Luftwaffe prior to WWII, Willy Messerschmitt had emerged as one of Germany's most successful aircraft designers, becoming so established by 1938 that the shareholders of the Bayerische Flugzeugwerke decided it was time to rename the company 'Messerschmitt AG', with Willy to hold the joint post of General Director and Chairman of the Management Committee. The remarkable successes of the Bf-108 and Bf-109 had inspired him to attempt a repetition in the twin-engined field, and in due course the prototype Me-110 appeared on the scene...

So, essentially, all aircraft produced under the Bayerische Flugzeugwerke were prefixed ''Bf'' and then when just the Company name changed, all aircraft from then on were prefixed ''Me''......

From all I've read, either prefix is 'understandable' as being a product of Messerschmitt, just in particular the Bf-108 and early variant Bf-109's were probably accurate.....thus the 'F' model for example, being designed post-1938 would be more accurately referred to as Me-109F...as was the last of the breed, the Me-262......

From this I understand the RAF generally referred to the Messerschmitts' as 'Bf' through the War, probably unaware of a subtle name-change of a German company at the time.....

Perhaps Erich can comment on this.....

 

[Camarogenius]

While We're on the subject of the 109, correct me on something, I was of the understanding that the 109's engine was inverted, so that the cylinders pointed down, but on another post on the board, someone said that the 109 had a cannon mounted between the cylinder heads that fired through the prop hub.
Was the crankshaft centerline actually above the center of the prop, or was the poster mistaken?

 

[P38 Pilot]

Yeah. I actually prefered Me-109 because Messerschmitt made a lot of German fighters during the war. Name is best understood.

I agree!!! Me-109 puts fear into me when I hear it.

Exactly! Me sounds like "Enemy." It does put more fear into you! In my opinion Bf sounds like "Butt Face."

 

[Gemhorse]

I haven't got all those particulars right handy just at the moment, they were inverted V12's, but at a rough guess, my feeling is the cannon fired at the back of the engine where the breechblock would be, through the crankshaft and on out through the propellor boss...the engine MG 151/20 follows the engine's axis.....
Trajectory of both fuselage MG 17's and engine cannon were accurate on the gunsight to 400m, the wing gondola MG 151/20's were 500m, according to a graph I have which I think were tested at Tarnewitz.......

 

[KraziKanuK]

Even late in the war one can see Bf on RLM documents. Bf can be seen on the a/c ID plate on some E's.

my feeling is the cannon fired at the back of the engine where the breechblock would be, through the crankshaft and on out through the propellor boss

Gemhorse, how can the shell pass through the crankshaft with all those con rods whirling by?

The barrel and blast tube were in the V.

A drawing of the DB605, http://skyraider3d.military-meshes.com/reference/DB605AS_plans01.jpg

Notice the centreline for the crankshaft and the propshaft.

 

[Gemhorse]

Ahh, thanks for that Krazy....I did say it was a 'rough' guess...the technical aspects aren't quite my forte - history perhaps....I was probably thinking along the lines of the Airacobra or something.....[probably got that wrong too!!]....I unfortunately haven't the advantage of looking a 109 over in the flesh....the nearest is a G in Aussie.....

The 'Bf - Me' thing was simply how this dual designation came to pass, historically, as I've read about it...In all the material I've read, it is sometimes one or the other, from book to book. Everyone generally knows what is being referred to - I've simply dated the change Messerschmitt's company underwent, that likely influenced the prefix change. RLM would also likely continue to use Bf outa familiarity....later Messerschmitts were referred to as 'Me' such as the 262 etc....No-one else seems to have forwarded a more realistic explanation.... - Cheers

 

[KraziKanuK]

I forgot to put in a 'wink'.

pic of the engine/cannon setup in the P-39, http://www.cobrasoverthetundra.com/images/p39_engine_canon.jpg

 

[Gemhorse]

Many thanks for that... one learns something every day, eh?...
- Cheers...

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

i use the Bf for the -109 but i prefer Me for the -110............

 

[Gemhorse]

Yeah, I do too.... muffed it with that gun bizzo tho', eh!!! - Love that new siggy Lanc....choice!