CurzonDax said:
LOL
Me 109, Spitfire, Zero or Mustang
- Thread starter d_bader
- Start date
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LOL
That is OK. Lucky person to have flown in a Lanc! Lanc will not be happy for sure.CurzonDax said:
DerAdlerIstGelandet said:CurzonDax said:
LOL
crowdpleaser
Airman
plan_D said:
Now are we going to make this very Hollywood and use Me-108s to sub for 109's or the Hispano versions of the 109. Then of course, like in all Battle of Britain movies, you use EVERY version of the Spit, including bubble canopy ones. Lastly I will intecept with EVERY version of the Corsair like in Baa Baa Black Sheep, even the French 20 mm armed ones. Now there's irony, a French Corsair shooting down a French bomber. Also you repeat every scene like a million times from different angles or use VERY expensive special effects, with the wrong versions of the planes, to make it look very cool, you know like Pearl Harbor. Lastly you get Stephen Spielberg to direct because everyone knows a Moth or a Ford Tri-Plane can manuever like a F-105 evading a SAM.
:{)
PS- BTW, I happen to love all of the movies and series mentioned above.
Parmigiano
Senior Airman
.. and I'll fly a French LeO, but instead of the tail gunner I will get Michel Platini: you dare to come close with your Corsair/Spit/FW and he'll shoot you down with a penalty kick.
crowdpleaser said:damn guys i will finish u all in a dogfight with my zero, its light, fast, well armed but 1 minor is when u shoot me ill surely be dead cause, i havent got any armor, so i must relei(?) on perfect handling its shoot or be shot!
greeting
crowdpleaser
If you really think so. The Zero was not very well armed and she did not handle very well over 275 mph. She was a myth! Maybe on that flight sim of yours she might be alright.
evangilder
"Shooter"
Yep. You would do okay in a turning dogfight at 250, above that, you are going to be meat.
TigerSnake
Recruit
I leave this stuff to the 'Down to earth'' Pragmatic' EXPERTS!!!
EX-RN CAPT. Eric "Winkle" Brown is a living legend among the global test-pilot fraternity, with unrivalled experience since 1939 in an incredible variety of fixed and rotary-wing aircraft. He graduated from carrier-based fighter operations and deck-landing trials to test-flying at the Aeroplane Armament Experimental Establishment at Boscombe Down in 1943, and became Aero Flight CO and Chief Naval Pilot at Royal Aircraft Establishment (RAE) Farnborough until 1949.
In late 1945 he led a British technical commission, which entailed evaluating and ferrying 55 types of German aircraft. Apart from new jet fighters and bombers such as the Arado Ar 234, Heinkel He 162, Messerschmitt Me 262 and Me 163, they included even more exotic aircraft, like the tandem-twin Dornier Do 335 and the prone-pilot Berlin B9 and Horten Ho IV tailless research glider.
He was a highly experienced Combat pilot and a big fan of Grumman A/C
He was also very highly regarded by Grumman and the USN as a test pilot. It was he who, after the Americans scrubbed the Corsair as a FLEET CARRIER based A/C, was able to train service pilots to operate them from ESCORT CARRIERS!!!
Captain Brown was asked at a Test Pilot's Conference in 2002 which aircraft did he regard as being the best FIGHTER of WWII...
His answer: The Zero until 1943 - then little to choose between the FW 190D, P51D and Griffon engined Spitfires.
END OF STORY! (pity he wasn't able to test the Yak3!!)
EX-RN CAPT. Eric "Winkle" Brown is a living legend among the global test-pilot fraternity, with unrivalled experience since 1939 in an incredible variety of fixed and rotary-wing aircraft. He graduated from carrier-based fighter operations and deck-landing trials to test-flying at the Aeroplane Armament Experimental Establishment at Boscombe Down in 1943, and became Aero Flight CO and Chief Naval Pilot at Royal Aircraft Establishment (RAE) Farnborough until 1949.
In late 1945 he led a British technical commission, which entailed evaluating and ferrying 55 types of German aircraft. Apart from new jet fighters and bombers such as the Arado Ar 234, Heinkel He 162, Messerschmitt Me 262 and Me 163, they included even more exotic aircraft, like the tandem-twin Dornier Do 335 and the prone-pilot Berlin B9 and Horten Ho IV tailless research glider.
He was a highly experienced Combat pilot and a big fan of Grumman A/C
He was also very highly regarded by Grumman and the USN as a test pilot. It was he who, after the Americans scrubbed the Corsair as a FLEET CARRIER based A/C, was able to train service pilots to operate them from ESCORT CARRIERS!!!
Captain Brown was asked at a Test Pilot's Conference in 2002 which aircraft did he regard as being the best FIGHTER of WWII...
His answer: The Zero until 1943 - then little to choose between the FW 190D, P51D and Griffon engined Spitfires.
END OF STORY! (pity he wasn't able to test the Yak3!!)
evangilder
"Shooter"
Welcome aboard, TigerSnake, but I think you will find that that is the opinion of one man. I know a couple of guys that fly a Zero today, regularly, who would disagree.
And Eric Brown is a pack of lies anyhow.
Glider
Captain
DerAlder. We've had this before but because one man may be wrong about something or you disagree about what he says doesn't make him a liar.
Personally I would agree that the Zero wasn't the best fighter in 1942/3. But if you look at what it was up against in its theater of operations then its a fair opinion. People will argue that the Wildcat performed better which is also a valid opinion.
Test pilots are not fools or they wouldn't last long, neither do they suffer fools gladly. Tiger is right when he says that Eric Brown is widely respected in that community, and I for one wouldn't disagree with the views of his peers.
Personally I would agree that the Zero wasn't the best fighter in 1942/3. But if you look at what it was up against in its theater of operations then its a fair opinion. People will argue that the Wildcat performed better which is also a valid opinion.
Test pilots are not fools or they wouldn't last long, neither do they suffer fools gladly. Tiger is right when he says that Eric Brown is widely respected in that community, and I for one wouldn't disagree with the views of his peers.
I would disagree with his opinion though. While I may not have flown the Zero, or any other plane for that matter, it seems to me that the Zeke is shrouded in myth that came from the initial shock of the entire Japanese success and has ran through as skimming references to the U.S being beaten in the first six months of war.
The fact of the matter is, the Zeke had range, climb and low-speed turning. In a dogfight if the Zeke's opponent fought on the vertical, the Zeke didn't stand a chance because it wasn't able to turn well above 250 MPH - and it was a slow plane. A few Spitfire Vb out in the CBI in 1941 - used properly, would have soon shattered the myth of the Zeke.
The fact of the matter is, the Zeke had range, climb and low-speed turning. In a dogfight if the Zeke's opponent fought on the vertical, the Zeke didn't stand a chance because it wasn't able to turn well above 250 MPH - and it was a slow plane. A few Spitfire Vb out in the CBI in 1941 - used properly, would have soon shattered the myth of the Zeke.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
1.43 to 1 kill ratio of the USAAF between Jan 42 and Nov 42. Although this includes the Oscar, but it says somethig out the Zero invinicability myth...
Also compared to Allied planes the aircraft was fragile. With almst no armor and no self sealing tanks once a Allied fighter with its heavier firepower got behind it and started to score hits its was adios muchachos.
Still it was nimble and had great range and I think there are only three flying today and two of those appeared in the movie Pearl Harbor. Also I think that it also the most expensive warbird to own, approaching 2 million US dollars.
:{)
Still it was nimble and had great range and I think there are only three flying today and two of those appeared in the movie Pearl Harbor. Also I think that it also the most expensive warbird to own, approaching 2 million US dollars.
:{)
Glider
Captain
I agree with you PlanD but the Spitfires weren't out there and the Zero was at least as good as anything it was up against.
Personally from what I have read the reason why the USA could hold there own against the Zero's wasn't because of the aircraft the USA had. It was the better training, discipline and ability to modify their tactics that made the USA so formidable.
Since I joined this thread it was suggested that I read some books that were reccomended and I am glad that I did. There were a number of times when Jap pilots came back spitting with fury because they got in each others way. Chased planes when they should have concentrated on the allocated task letting the American planes either get away or get through to their targets. As far as I can tell they were still flying V formations until late in the war. Even we learned that lesson.
As I said in my post, I don't think the Zero was the best fighter in 1942 but it was a valid opinion given the opposition.
Personally from what I have read the reason why the USA could hold there own against the Zero's wasn't because of the aircraft the USA had. It was the better training, discipline and ability to modify their tactics that made the USA so formidable.
Since I joined this thread it was suggested that I read some books that were reccomended and I am glad that I did. There were a number of times when Jap pilots came back spitting with fury because they got in each others way. Chased planes when they should have concentrated on the allocated task letting the American planes either get away or get through to their targets. As far as I can tell they were still flying V formations until late in the war. Even we learned that lesson.
As I said in my post, I don't think the Zero was the best fighter in 1942 but it was a valid opinion given the opposition.
evangilder
"Shooter"
It is certainly one of the rarest to own.
evangilder said:
No doubt! I was reading a little on actual Zeros, not modified Texans, used in movies. Pearl Harbor used two out of the three still flying. There are several in flying condition in museums around the world, but only three are currently flying. There are various types in museums around the world in varying stages of either display or restoration. The USN museum in Pensacola has a gorgeous Zero. From what I read they're the only Japanese WWII aircraft flying. The others that you see are either Vultees and Texans that have been mutated to look like Zeros, Jills, and so on. So when when you see Tora Tora Tora! or re-runs of Baa Baa Black Sheep they are these mutants (they technically are not replicas).
:{)
evangilder
"Shooter"
Actually, if you come to Camarillo, I can show you a real A6M3 that flies at airshows all season. I have worked on it and sat in it. There is also an A6M5 in Chino that flies regularly. In Camarillo, we also have a non-flying A6M2 that is up for sale. It needs work, so the asking price is $695,000.
