ME109 - I need some help!!!

[Wurger]

That aircraft has been dis-assembled. look at the rear wing spar - no damage to the fitting, so the bolts have been removed. And as someone else said - the gear is down.
And the other wing has been reassembled without the root fairing.

Yep .. and also if the wing would come away during the landing it should be lying elsewhere.

And what is more, the pilot had a lot of time to prop the plane with a rust pipe. He might have tried to lift the kite in order to reinflate of the punctured tyre.

 

[Chris Simmonds]

I want to reproduce the ME109 crashed in n Stalingrad. There are several good photos of the same aircraft.

My question is, what colour is it most likely to be? There is clearly a straight edge two tone pattern on the wings, but the fuselage appears to be one dark colour - including the belly which is unusual. It's also unusual that it bears no numbers or markings other than the cross.

I can't find any other reference for a 109 that has no camo pattern on the fuselage.

You can paint it whatever and however you like because the scale model you have so far created is not the aircraft 'melange' built by the Soviets illustrated in the photo's you attach.

The fuselage is from a Bf 109 E.
The wings are from a Bf 109 G
The cowling is from a Bf 109 G
The engine is from a Bf 109 E
There is no spinner but would have been from a Bf 109 E

Bf 109 E-4 & E-7's served with the Rumanians, 3 & 8./Schlachtgeschwader 1,
Bf 109 F & G's flew with a number of Luftwaffe units: Stab, I & III./JG 3, Stab, 2 Staffel, II, III and 13.(Slow)/ JG 52.

So fantasy plane or accuracy.

Further: all the German units above were painted in winter white, therefore the 'Frankenstein' Soviet propaganda Bf 109 E/G has been repainted by the Russians in a non-authentic colour scheme probably overall green. To add to this, the Balkenkreuz is totally wrong being a crude pastiche of the real article adding credence to the Soviet repaint assertion. Likewise the G cowling has not been repainted by the Soviets.

 

[Wurger]

A brief note ... the wing could be either of F or G. These wings looked the same but with the G-3 there introduced bulges above the wheel bays because of using wheels of larger diameter. In all pics with the wings seen the lack of these bulges can be noticed. So if G version it had to be either the G-1 or G-2. The G-1 series was limited rather so the G-2 would be more propably. But IMHO the F-4 is very likely as well.

Regarding the cowling .. it is not from the Bf 109G but from the Bf 109E. It can be seen that there are two bulges at the top back edge of the cowl. Also, there are two vents at the front of the cowling that weren't used for the G version. Additionally there can be noticed a small bulge at the cowl side that can be found at the all Emils. What is more the engine cowling has the characteristic shape of the bottom edge with the cut for a rectangle plate seen above the Emil exhaust pipses. Also the back side edge of the cowl has the square cut for the supercharger air intake fairing that was of a square ( rectangle ) shape for E vesion. The G cowling was longer and there was a round hole for the air inlet and the fairing was of different shape and attached to the cowling directly. Finally , the engine cowling of the Emil was of the one-piece hood type while the Gustaw and later ones had it as the two-piece cowling joined with a long hinge at the top. It allowed to access the engine compartment either from the starboard side or port one without removing the entire cowling. Although the source images are quite blurry the lack of the hinge at the cowl top can be seen. Please see the shots below ..

The white paint was washable and Russians didn't need to repaint the plane. It was enough to use some of water to remove it. Also why they would have to do that if the plane was already painted. Secondly if you have a close up look at the engine cowling you may notice that there are lighter spots that look like the paint there peeled off. I would say that is a result of repainting the yellow nose with a darker colour of the camo what was done by Germans on the Eastern Front quite often.
Regarding the LW cross .. IMHO it looks fine. Just there is a lack of the thin outer black outlines. Judging by it size it covers two fuselage sections so its proportions seem to be correct.

 

[SaparotRob]

BTW .. a Bf 109E captured at the Stalingrad 1943 ...

View attachment 641232
the source: Bf109E Stalingrad 1943 | World War Photos

This thread along with the Mystery Passenger 'Bipe are fascinating. The forensic skills of this forum are amazing.
As to this photo, I noticed the spinner lacks that opening that for years I had assumed was for a canon. I thought that was a standard feature.

 

[fubar57]

The spinner opening could be capped off

 

[Wurger]

This thread along with the Mystery Passenger 'Bipe are fascinating. The forensic skills of this forum are amazing.
As to this photo, I noticed the spinner lacks that opening that for years I had assumed was for a canon. I thought that was a standard feature.

As you may see it wasn't. It is said that the cannon was going to be fitted with the E-2 variant. However none of the Emil series was armed with the cannon. The E-1 which was the earlier designation, had the same spinner with the opening but wasn't going to be armed with a such mounted cannon at all. Also the earlier versions like the B,C and D had the spinner with the hole but these weren't designed for the mentioned armament.
As memo serves the closed spinner was introduced with the E-7 but you may find it used for E-4, E-5, etc . The closed spinner was of two shapes, one was blunt while the second one was pointed. Well .. with the standard spinner with the opening it gives the three variants of the spinner.

 

[Master_Ale_88]

Hi everybody,
I hope that this can be of some help if eBob still wanted to reproduced the...Let's call it "composed" Messerschmitt, as it is shown by the photo. This beautiful drawing along with the photograph represents a Me Bf 109 G-2 that has been captured and repainted by VVS personnel. It is just a supposition, but the odd monochromatic fuselage sported by the Stalingrad Messerschmitt might be the result of a re-painting similar to the one applied on this G-2 (extended over lower surfaces as well). If so, the right colour isn't an RLM coded one, but a shade of green used on VVS aircraft. I am not so expert of the colours used by the Soviet Airforce, therefore I don't want to be misleading trying to identify the right green, but I am sure that in this forum someone can undoubtedly find the correct hue! I hope this can clarify a bit the situation!
Photo source:
www.smallscaleart.com

 

[eBob]

OK - so this is where I'm at.
This piece is only a scenic item that will go on my Stalingrad game table - I'm making a series of terrain pieces that players can select from at the start of the game and this is one of the small terrain options (others will include building sections or burned out tanks etc). So while I was originally trying to match the photo, because why not, I'm now just going to finish it to look nice.

I think I'll go for a two-tone Green scheme. Although my game table is winter - the plane of course didn't necessarily crash in winter (in my world, it crashed).
This was only a practice for my large terrain piece - a 1/48 scale crashed He 111.

I chose the eduard Bf109G-6/AS (weekender) model not because it matched the one in the photo but because I identified it as the most detailed kit that would give me all the separate flaps etc - and because I found one cheap on Ebay - perfect. I had thought it might come with the engine block - but sadly it didn't - but then fortunately I found the verlinden one on Ebay for £7, a real bonus!

The eduard kit is pretty amazing - the detail on it is excellent - though you do end up with enough parts to almost construct two or three other planes - I mean it comes with 4 different sets of propellers - which I'm sure must be different in some way, and 4 sets of tires - which have different tread patterns (which is no doubt important to someone) - anyway - it's quite the kit - and in fact I did feel a bit intimidated by it and didn't start the build for about 3 months (I never made an aircraft model before - except a hurricane when I was about six).

So.. I just need to scratch build the skeletal wing flaps and I'll be ready to do the fun bit.

It's funny that the plane has been identified as a Frankenplane because I had asked by brother (a bit of ww2 plane boffin) to help me identify the mark - and he was like 'I think it's an F - no wait, it must be a G ... erm.. I don't know' - and that explains that I also puzzeld over the 'rusty pipe' but had assumed that it was the thing it had bumped into.

 

[eBob]

I like this scheme... but I guess I do need a scheme that's appropriate for Stalingrad.

 

[Wurger]

Judging by the size of the German cross the date should be 1939/1940. Well ... it doesn't match the Stalingrad time.

 

[SaparotRob]

It's like nothing gets by you guys. Amazing.

 

[eBob]

...

 

[Wurger]

Looking good.

 

[SaparotRob]

It's enjoyable to follow your build. The models posted here are so correct and precise. I'm getting a kick out of watching you build something wrong so correct and precisely wrong.

 

[eBob]

Thanks.. I think

 

[eBob]

So am I right in assuming the main fuselage is aluminium (so I can do bare metal around the damages) but that the aelerones are canvas! Is that why they're basically rotted away in the photos ?

 

[SaparotRob]

Thanks.. I think

It's a complement.

 

[Wurger]

So am I right in assuming the main fuselage is aluminium (so I can do bare metal around the damages) but that the aelerones are canvas! Is that why they're basically rotted away in the photos ?

The ailerons and the rudder with the elevators were of the metal construction but of fabric skin. The canvas covering was torn and removed. However its remnants still can be seen at a couple of places. Looking at a couple of images of the Frankenplane I would say the rudder was painted yellow. So if you decide to leave some of the fabric skin there you should paint it just with the yellow.

 

[eBob]

colour test.

 

[Wurger]

Quite close IMHO. Looking good.

the pic source: the net.