Military Members post pics of you in your uniforms.

[mkloby]

I can't imagine how much that uniform must cost to manufacture on large scale. I haven't even heard of that uniform yet. They plan on outfitting troops army wide with it, or just spec ops? I just wish the army's new digis had the name tapes slanted and aligned with the pockets, not parallel to the deck.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

It is called the Future Warrior system. It is currently being tested though by Spec Ops and will by 2025 be in use Army wide. I saw it at the Army's Land Combat Expo in Heidelberg, Germany. It is a NATO Expo held each year at the US Army military post there.

Here is an artical on it:

Jul 30 2004
WASHINGTON -- The Army's future soldier will resemble something out of a science fiction movie, members of Congress witnessed at a demonstration on Capitol Hill July 23.
The newest concepts for lightweight, lethal uniform systems to be worn by the future soldiers in battle were displayed at the Russell Senate Building here.

Two uniform systems are under development. The Future Force Warrior system will be available for fielding to soldiers in 2010. The Vision 2020 Future Warrior system, which will follow on the concept of the 2010 Future Force Warrior system, is scheduled to be ready 10 years later.

The two new uniform systems are being developed under the Future Combat System Program. "This Army initiative will develop and demonstrate revolutionary capabilities for the future soldiers in battle," said Jean-Louis "Dutch" DeGay, a Soldier Systems Center representative.

The new systems include a weapon, head-to-toe individual protection, onboard computer network, soldier-worn power sources, and enhanced human performance.

"The Future Force Warrior will be a responsive and formidable member of an invincible battle space team," DeGay explained, describing the system scheduled to be fielded by 2010.

"The 2010 Future Force Warrior system will meet the more immediate, short-term demands of our fighting warriors in the battle space, while the 2020 model will remind you of an ominous creature out of a science fiction movie," DeGay said. He added that the system will leverage all the technologies and lessons learned from Afghanistan and Iraq.

Soldiers deployed to Afghanistan and Iraq carry large amounts of external weight, often 120 pounds or more, to be battle-ready. DeGay said the new uniform system -- from head to toe -- weighs 50 pounds.

The body armor of the new uniforms will absorb the shock of a bullet much better than current bulletproof vests. "The hard body armor has been stood off of the body by 2½ to 3 inches, so when the soldier is shot, the force is more evenly distributed to decrease injuries such as broken ribs," DeGay described.

Soldiers will be able to chat online with each other while they are walking down a jungle trail. The new system has the ability for each soldier to be tied into tactical local and wide-area networks with an onboard computer that sits at the base of the soldier's back. "We essentially call the 2010 soldier an 'F- 16 on legs' because it gives the soldier the same capabilities as they would normally have on aircraft and other platforms," DeGay explained. The F-16 is an Air Force fighter jet.

Soldiers will also be able to share data with vehicles, aircraft and other individual soldiers. "If an Apache helicopter was deployed forward and recorded real-time video of the enemy, the helicopter can send the video back to an individual soldier to observe," he said, with obvious enthusiasm and excitement for the new uniform system.

As has been seen in science-fiction movies, a dropdown piece of eyewear from the helmet allows the soldier to see a 17-inch computer screen displaying anything relayed to the soldier. "This eyewear device is see-through, so it hangs out in space," DeGay said. This allows soldiers to take in all supporting data while keeping both hands on their weapons.

Soldiers wearing the new system will have no need for an external microphone to communicate. "The helmet has sensors that register vibrations of the cranial cavity so I don't have to have a microphone in my mouth. That allows the soldier to control the entire computer via voice-activation," DeGay explained. Soldiers will be able to cycle through onboard menus via their eyewear device.

The onboard computer will monitor soldiers' overall physiological picture of how they are performing in the battle zone. "Warrior Physiological Status Monitoring System gives the soldier's body core temperature, skin temperature, heart rate, whether the soldier is standing or prone, and how much water the soldier has drunk," DeGay said.
A medic, who can be miles away, will now be able to diagnose and treat a soldier who is about to have sunstroke, without even physically seeing the soldier. "So a medic can see how the soldier's core body temperature is rising (and) heart rate is falling, and the soldier then knows to go directly to the medic for treatment," DeGay said. "The computer will drop down a map to direct the soldier where to find the medic for help."
He pointed out that with the new system commanders will be able to consider each soldier, aircraft and vehicle as part of a node of a tactical network that shares data with each other, sending and receiving data inside the battle space.

The second uniform system, the Vision 2020 Future Warrior concept, will follow the 2010 Future Force Warrior with more advanced nanotechnology.

Nanotechnology deals with the creation of incredibly small materials, devices or systems with a scaled-down size of 100 nanometers or less. A nanometer is a metric measurement equivalent to one billionth of a meter.
"If we were in Detroit, the 2020 Future Warrior system would be the concept car. It leverages a lot of the nano-work being done by the Massachusetts Institute for Technology," DeGay said, noting the Army just awarded MIT a five- year, $50 million program to establish the Institute for Soldier Nanotechnologies.

Think about a good action movie that shows an average person walking down a street with a nice designer suit. All of a sudden, gunshots are heard and just before a bullet hits this person, his soft fabric suit transforms into an incredible display of alien armor that deflects bullets. If Natick engineers are successful, this movie will become a reality in the future U.S. Army.

"What we hope to gain from this program is body armor that wears like a traditional textile impregnated with nanomachines connected to an onboard computer, DeGay explained. "So when you shoot a round into the uniform system, it's normally pliable until it senses the strike of a round -- it becomes rigid, defeats the strike of the round and becomes soft again."

A shortcoming of traditional body armor is that it can only absorb so many strikes from machine-gun rounds. "When you have a uniform with this new nanotechnology, it can absorb unlimited numbers of machine-gun rounds," DeGay pointed out.

Another potential development is inserting "nanomuscle fibers" that can actually simulate muscles, giving soldiers more strength. Fabric is impregnated with nanomachines that create the same weight, lift and feel as a muscle. "So I coat the outside of the armor with a nanomuscle fiber that gives me 25 to 35 percent better lifting capability," DeGay explained.

The uniform from the waist down will have a robotic-powered system that is connected directly to the soldier. This system could use pistons to actually replicate the lower body, giving the soldier "upwards of about 300 percent greater lifting and load-carriage capability," DeGay said. "We are looking at potentially mounting a weapon directly to the uniform system and now the soldier becomes a walking gun platform."

The Future Force Warrior is the Army's short-term change, with a complete rebuild of the soldier from skin out being planned through the Future Warrior system. "We are already starting to look at the 2020 Future Warrior concept, which is integrating stuff that is just starting to show promise in the lab," DeGay concluded. He said researchers hope to see this developing technology mature in the next 15 to 20 years. "Future Warrior is a visionary concept of how the individual warrior may be equipped in the 2015-2020 timeframe," he said.
Future Warrior -- The Army's Future Combat System

 

[ndicki]

Try wearing that lot tracking terrs in the bush or something! Grief! Might be useful in an all-out war, but I'm going to take some convincing that loading people down with tons of technology is going somehow to make them into super-soldiers. Admittedly, some of the kit may prove useful now and again, but don't you already feel just a little bit overloaded? There's a limit to how much stuff you can carry round...

Of course, I was a real infantryman, and carried all my kit around with me. Vehicles? No, what for? They draw attention to you...

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Try wearing that lot tracking terrs in the bush or something! Grief! Might be useful in an all-out war, but I'm going to take some convincing that loading people down with tons of technology is going somehow to make them into super-soldiers. Admittedly, some of the kit may prove useful now and again, but don't you already feel just a little bit overloaded? There's a limit to how much stuff you can carry round...

Did you read the artical at all?

It talks about how the hole kit and everything you need weighs 50lb. Thats less than what the infantryman carry around today...

Like I said I saw the whole kit at the Combat Expo last year and it is fricken amazing and going to make the soldiers abilites even better.

Of course, I was a real infantryman, and carried all my kit around with me. Vehicles? No, what for? They draw attention to you...

I was a "real" aviator, and carried all my **** to a gator with which I drove all my stuff to my helicopter and then let it fly my stuff around for me.

Not my fault you signed up to be a grunt. Everytime we saw "Real" Infantryman they would complain about how we dont carry **** around and how we are not "Real" Soldiers. They allways said that until we came to pick them up off the battlefield or gave them support from the air and then we were the greatest thing since bread and butter for them. They chose to be grunts not me.

 

[ndicki]

Sure, the kit weights 50lbs - so where's the several days worth of food and (more importantly) water, just for starters? And the tells-the-medic-how-you're-feeling kit is supposed to work when you're off in the goodness knows where with the terrs and baddies all round, etc? We just stop the game and slope off to the RAP for a check-up? Like I said, fine for a high-tech mech war, but as far as I can see, we're not fighting those at the moment, or even for the foreseeable future. We need to be doing foot patrolling, recce, hard fast combined arms strikes, etc... Terminator warfare isn't going to do the job. It might be useful when you do get a contact, but it isn't going to help you set that contact up. That requires lots of skillful, sneaky-beaky stuff which Terminator there is not designed for. Just my two-pennyworth. In my experience, the more high-tech stuff you've got, the more stuff there is to go wrong just when you need it. And if you always train WITH the stuff, then when it gives up the ghost, as it inevitably will, then you're going to find yourself in situations you are not adequately trained for. Don't forget this junk will have been made to minimal specs by the lowest bidder, and will have been issued to half-as-dozen probably clueless troopies before they give it to you...

Who heard me complaining about being an infantryman? The only thing to be! Everything else is just support...

 

[Matt308]

HALO. Lot's of work to do before that becomes front line. Add rations, ammo and weapon and... what about maintenance?

 

[P38 Pilot]

I dont like the future warrior uniform. Im happy with the BDUs and ACUs.

 

[mkloby]

I have finally had time to read that article. I must say - it does seem a little bit ridiculous. I guess I will believe something like that when it comes out and is operational - and I am wearing one! Absorbs unlimited machine gun rounds? It sounds great - and I bet there is science behind it - but just sounds too gadgety. Besides - what about cost. Seems more like a study in which certain elements will be adopted by the military.

 

[ndicki]

Interesting to note that the Marines - who are first-class infantrymen who just happen often to arrive up the sharp end by alternative means, seem to echo my feelings...

Technology in aircraft is one thing, but to the infantryman who has to cart it round with him for miles and miles, only to see the stuff fail to do its job just when the opposition is starting to get uppity, is another...

The two most important pieces of technology the infantryman has are his rifle and his radio; not necessarily in that order. (And if you want my opinion, people who ride into battle in armoured vehicles are not real infantrymen; they are more, say, Panzer Grenadiers. I have two feet, and they hardly ever have mechanical failures!)

 

[mkloby]

Interesting to note that the Marines - who are first-class infantrymen who just happen often to arrive up the sharp end by alternative means, seem to echo my feelings...

I must say I am not sure what that means! I will say that we have foot slogging infantry, as well as Light Armored Recon infantry - essentially a battalion equipped with LAV-25s. However - infantry will often deploy with Amphib Assault Vehicles, and would be fully mech. However, they would be used more as an APC not an Infantry Fighting Vehicle. The new Expeditionary Fighting Vehicle is being designed to act as more of an IFV.
Battalion motor pools have been built up as well due to the use of mounted recon in Iraq - so there are also ample 7 tons and armored humvees organic to that unit to provide transportation. Not to mention our air assault capabilities - CH-46s and CH-53, even could use hueys, plus we have our own C-130s. There are many ways that Marines can hitch a ride - although much of our training involves humping.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Who heard me complaining about being an infantryman? The only thing to be! Everything else is just support...

Lets see this is what I did every day as a Support guy in the War:

1. Insterted Sniper Teams so they could kill enemy snipers so that everyone else could be a bit safer while in there Camp and so they could kill assholes trying to place road side bombs to kill our convoys.

2. Inserted Special Forces and Navy SEALS into enemy camps and villages on combat airassaults so they could take out the bad guys.

3. Inserted whole Infantry Companies in to Samara and Falujah for combat offensives.

4. Extracted wounded soldiers who were on the verge of dieing because the Medivacs were allready at there full capacity.

5. Patroled supply roughts and roads by flying along them to prevent people from laying mines and bombs.

6. Evaded Missles and small arms fire directly fired at my aircraft.

7. Engaged those people who fired those weapons at my aircraft.

8. Rescued downed airman who were shot down.

Yeah Support guys as you call them dont just sit around support the infantry. Thats why were called a COMBAT AVIATION BRIGADE.

I somewhat understand the attitude of the infantry but it pisses me off because they think they are gods greatest gift to the military when in reality they are just either:

A. To Dumb to do anything else in the Army because there test scores were to low.

B. To smart to be in the Infantry and they chose it only because it had the smallest enlistment time and they needed there college paid off.

I choose to think they are just jealous they dont get to fly around in the coolest damn helicopters to take the sky every day...

Basically what I am getting at here is the Infantry aint **** without mobility in todays Army and that includes Army Aviation!

I dont care how much of a bad *** infantry you think you are, you go to Iraq and try walking for days through the desert just to reach a destination 50 miles away. Aint gonna happen...

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

The two most important pieces of technology the infantryman has are his rifle and his radio; not necessarily in that order. (And if you want my opinion, people who ride into battle in armoured vehicles are not real infantrymen; they are more, say, Panzer Grenadiers. I have two feet, and they hardly ever have mechanical failures!)

Maybe in yesterdays military, not in today. The infantryman can not function with mobility today. Todays wars are being fought over vast areas. You can not walk a hundred miles and fight in the desert. You have to get there by either HUMVV, helicopter or APC. Todays infantry has gotten with the program...

 

[mkloby]

Hey Adler I think he meant that all in good fun, and didn't mean anything offensive (I hope) by the everything else is just support comment. I hear where you're coming from, I too catch a lot of **** too for training to be a pilot rather than ground combat arms. Our modern day combined arms doctrine would collapse whether you take out the ground elements - including infantry, or the air elements. Every MOS is essential to the way we wage warfare - take out one and the whole doctrine collapses.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I must say I am not sure what that means! I will say that we have foot slogging infantry, as well as Light Armored Recon infantry - essentially a battalion equipped with LAV-25s. However - infantry will often deploy with Amphib Assault Vehicles, and would be fully mech. However, they would be used more as an APC not an Infantry Fighting Vehicle. The new Expeditionary Fighting Vehicle is being designed to act as more of an IFV.
Battalion motor pools have been built up as well due to the use of mounted recon in Iraq - so there are also ample 7 tons and armored humvees organic to that unit to provide transportation. Not to mention our air assault capabilities - CH-46s and CH-53, even could use hueys, plus we have our own C-130s. There are many ways that Marines can hitch a ride - although much of our training involves humping.

And that goes with what I said up there. A mobile force has the most advantage. Just hoofing it around with a ruck sack and your gun and radio will not win wars.

The USMC and the US Army have figured that out...

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I hear where you're coming from, I too catch a lot of **** too for training to be a pilot rather than ground combat arms. Our modern day combined arms doctrine would collapse whether you take out the ground elements - including infantry, or the air elements. Every MOS is essential to the way we wage warfare - take out one and the whole doctrine collapses.

I agree with you fully! 100%

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Hey Adler I think he meant that all in good fun, and didn't mean anything offensive (I hope) by the everything else is just support comment.

I hope so too, because comments like that if they are serious really piss me off, because me and my comrads dodged missles and bullets every day and risked our lives every day doing our mission and I have lost friends who were shot down.

That goes for many many different kinds of jobs that are not infantry.

 

[ndicki]

All meant in good fun - no intention to do anything other than harmless tweaking. Of course I know that the whole thing fits together into one machine, and that if any part fails to perform, the machine as a whole breaks down.

There is some truth in what I said though, because the final end to any conventional war is to occupy the enemy's terrain and/or country, and the number one tool for that is the infantryman. But I admit (against my hard-fought habits) that he can't really do it alone, and that he is not the only one up the sharp end, by any means. No slur was intended to anyone who gets in harm's way.

A lot of the stuff I did was non-mech, in a different approach to a different kind of war; and I'm very glad that I'm not stuck in the middle of Iraq, as you say.

So don't take it too seriously, and when I get the chance, I'll stand you a beer!

BTW, in the British Army, the ones who get the HIGHEST scores are admitted to the Infantry. Just out of interest. Also, I'd just ask the all-mech types what they'd do in the Falklands? While people trained as leg-infantry will be capable of using vehicles, I'm not sure the opposite is necessarily true.

 

[mkloby]

Hey ndicki, i'll throw something at you. All US Marines are trained as riflemen, and trained in infantry platoon level ops. They even use squadrons to do patrols, both foot and mounted, in Iraq. While the grunts spend their whole time training for ground engagements, other units can prove up to the task as well.

All Marine officers go through 6 months of ground training, including infantry off/def, SASO, urban, patrolling, engineering, etc. before they even go to their assigned MOS.

Just a thought - some of the most major problems that the Wehrmacht faced in WWII was it's lack of mechanized/motorized units - particularly acute in the early war years. This really bacame a problem in Barbarossa, as infantry slowed the advance of the fast moving panzer divs. Hitler refused to allow panzer armies to continue ahead of the infantry - he tethered them to the slow moving infantry.

Just something to think about - in a conventional war nonetheless.

 

[ndicki]

I think that in fact we're all making the same mistake - believing that 'our' style of war is the only one there is; in fact, they are all out there somewhere, just waiting for us to get caught up in them.

Those who were in the Iraq War see that as being "real war" - and it is. Meanwhile, those who were in the Falklands see something else; the Vietnam veterans, something different; the Rhodies yet another war, and so on. All of them are right. And to cap it all, unless you're bloody lucky, the one you get is the one you didn't train for - so you train for the hardest.

Just a word, though, to those who preach mech war - it didn't work so well in Vietnam, it wouldn't have worked in Rhodesia, and it didn't work in Somalia. It is not the only way to do it, and the way it needs to be done depends on a lot of factors that are out of our control.

That's one of the things I like about the USMC - the fact that you are first Riflemen, and only then, whatever else you are. That is something I believe we share, in that, for example, all British (and come to that, Commonwealth, as far as I've seen) Officer Cadets train as Infantry Officers, and go to 'To-Arms' training only after thex receive their commissions. Much the same thing goes for British O/Rs, too; basic training assumes you are an infantryman, rather than, say, a tankie or a lorry-driver.

BTW, this may amuse you...

Telegraph | News | US calls in Paras for Baghdad secret war

Just out of interest (tongue firmly in cheek!)

 

[mkloby]

Well I think of it like this. Mobility and speed are arguably the most important factors in a fighting force. In fact, USMC doctrine is based upon this. Sometimes that mobility may be acheived by APCs, sometimes trucks, sometimes C-130s, and sometimes helos. Mech had problems in Vietnam, but air assault became a cornerstone. Brings me to another point - adaptability. It's a great asset - a great tool to have these various capabilities. Obviously no one solution will work for all problems. Then there are times when you need lots of boots on the ground - which does not mean that leg inf does not coexist with all these other means. We do extensive cross training and combined arms exercises so whatever the threat is - there's a way to bring the hate and discontent.


BTW ndicki - your Royal Marines are awesome. We had them out in Quantico where we do our officer training - and one of those guys was walking around the barracks naked because he threw his cammies in the washer - I thought it was hilarious but a female officer who witnessed it did not.