Mosquito vs The Rest

[Dogwalker]

Please see my case for the Ju88.

You are right, we posted the same minute.
However, given that the informations are very interesting, that's the benefit of the hindsight, while a decision in 1940 would requires a prevision about how much an aircraft will fit the future LW needs.

 

[Balljoint]

This is a myth and has nothing to do with the reality. The Ta 154 had no structural problems, weather with the wood nor with the glue!
Source:
Focke-Wulf Nachtjäger Ta 154 "Moskito": Entwicklung, Produktion und Truppenerprobung: Amazon.de: Dietmar Hermann: Bücher

As I recall, the original Ta 154 design was structurally sound. However, the glue source was bombed out and the substitute glue was unsatisfactory causing structural failures.

As a material wood has important advantageous as well as shortcomings relative to metal. The damping nature of wood and greatly diminished sensitivity to stress raisers lessens wood's tendency to fatigue relative to metal.

 

[stona]

Please see my case for the Ju88.
Cheers
John

In 1940 they already had the Ju 88. It was capable of development and I already agreed with someone that aside from the hypothetical adoption of the Mosquito the Ju 88/188 was a route the Germans should have taken.

When Me 210 production was first halted (9th March 1942) the current run (240 aircraft) was allowed to continue as was development of the type. This was a bad mistake. It should have been ditched once and for all but once again the decision was not entirely practical or purely military. The decision was effectively reversed on 1st May. By September we had the new designation Me 410. Of course the new name solved everything! It's just a modified Me 210 with DB 603 engines.

The original question was hypothetical, there are any number of practical reasons why the Mosquito was not an option for the Luftwaffe. I'm surprised no one has mentioned the lack of Merlin engines, never mind supplies of Balsa!

Cheers

Steve

 

[FLYBOYJ]

As a material wood has important advantageous as well as shortcomings relative to metal. The damping nature of wood and greatly diminished sensitivity to stress raisers lessens wood's tendency to fatigue relative to metal.

It could also be harder to repair.

 

[Marcel]

Finally something interesting in this thread. Could the Mossie have performed as well or better with DB engines?

 

[DonL]

Why should the Mossie doesn't perform with DB engines, I can't see any technical problems other then redesign pins and connections.

A spitfire V tested with a DB 601E engine (from DB at Rechlin) was faster, especially at altitude, then with a Merlin 45. I have posted this report a while ago in this forum.

As I recall, the original Ta 154 design was structurally sound. However, the glue source was bombed out and the substitute glue was unsatisfactory causing structural failures.

As I have written, Dietmar Herrmann provided primary sources from FW, that every glue issue was solved from FW and also all glitch problems with the wood.

 

[Dogwalker]

Dietmar Herrmann provided primary sources from FW, that every glue issue was solved from FW and also all glitch problems with the wood.

So the problems were a fact, not a myth.

 

[tomo pauk]

It was actually DB-605 that was installed in the captured Spit V?

The chart comparing the Merlin 20 series with DB-60x. The pink line is applicable to the Merlin XX and 21, take off rating. The red line is applicable to the 'flying' XX and 21, and also as take off power and 'flying' Mk. 22 and 23 (+14 lbs in low gear, +16 lbs in high gear). The years by the lines for the DB should be taken with the grain of salt, the 601E and 605A were not flying with these power levels until 1942 and some time 1943, respectably.

 

[altsym]

The Spit was flown with the DB 601E. A DB 605A was installed, but never flown because of technical failures IIRC.

 

[Readie]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the lack of Merlin engines...

Cheers

Steve

Steve, Believe me I have been tempted !!
Cheers
john

 

[tomo pauk]

The Spit was flown with the DB 601E. A DB 605A was installed, but never flown because of technical failures IIRC.

Either my German is really rusty, or this Spitfire was flown with DB-605A:

 

[DonL]

Sometimes I'm realy annoyed that todays engineers haven't developed something like a Holodeck from the spacecraft Voyager, so I could see how my beloved FW 187 would perform with Merlin or DB engines.

Then we would have much less argumentations or clashes, it would be realy nice.8)

 

[redcoat]

In 1940 I could at least fly as far as Glasgow in most of my aircraft, but not now! It makes me furious when I see the Mosquito. I turn green and yellow with envy. The British, who can afford aluminium better than we can, knock together a beautiful wooden aircraft that every piano factory over there is building, and they give it a speed which they have now increased yet again. What do you make of that? There is nothing the British do not have. They have the geniuses and we have the nincompoops. After the war is over I'm going to buy a British radio set - then at least I'll own something that has always worked."

– Hermann Göring, 1943.

 

[Readie]

Sometimes I'm realy annoyed that todays engineers haven't developed something like a Holodeck from the spacecraft Voyager, so I could see how my beloved FW 187 would perform with Merlin or DB engines.

Then we would have much less argumentations or clashes, it would be realy nice.8)

Your FW's performance would be good with either a Merlin or DB engine Don.
It would be splitting hairs to argue either way.
Cheers
John

 

[altsym]

@ tomo pauk, thanks for the document. But I'll stick with it flew with a DB 601 the DB 605 was a technical failure.

@ redcoat, Hermann Göring didn't know his a$$hole from his elbow.

@ DonL, no kidding lol.

 

[DonL]

@ tomo pauk, thanks for the document. But I'll stick with it flew with a DB 601 the DB 605 was a technical failure.

@ redcoat, Hermann Göring didn't know his a$$hole from his elbow.

@ DonL, no kidding lol.

Hey man, I would realy appreciate the possibility to relax after a hard day of work with Lara Croft or Gwyneth Paltrow and look how my history what if's would play, that would be realy amazing. 8)

 

[OldSkeptic]

Some great photos pf Mosquito KA 114. The newly built (in New Zealand) Mossie, now at its new home in the US..
Many more (and a lot of other planes) at http://www.facebook.com/pages/Classic-Aircraft-Photography/265224834712?hc_location=stream

And a nice Spit one.

 

[pattle]

The Cant 1007 was built of wood, and if the Italians were able to build a large three engine bomber from wood then the Germans surely could have managed to build something along the lines of a Mosquito.

 

[mhuxt]

A number of things have been said in this thread about what the Mossie could not do, despite the statements being demonstrably wide of the mark.

I've mentioned this report before, have attached it below. (Sorry about the quality, that's how it came out of N.A.)

The other encounter worth noting is the closest thing I've come to a "Knights of the Air" 1 vs 1 encounter - Mossie and 190 met at low level on reciprocal headings over France, ended with the 190 and its unfortunate pilot in pieces on the ground after losing a turning battle against the Mossie.

 

[wuzak]

So what can it do that existing 109 FRs could not do already (and cheaper)?

Range, speed and equipment.

Range: Mosquito PR aircraft had much greater range than any Bf 109
Speed: Mosquito PR would be faster than the Bf 109E based reconnaissance aircraft. I would think so, anyway.
Equipment: More and better cameras can be carried.