Elvis
Chief Master Sergeant
...oops...
Most Beautiful Aircraft
- Thread starter schwarzpanzer
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drgondog
Major
Kool Kitty - the two things the Japs should have feared the most were the carriers and the subs. The carriers were 'out' and the third strike which tageted the Submarine docks and POL was aborted. Who knows how the future might have been altered if the Japanese had been successful at getting all their attack objectives and follow up to take Oahu.
Good bye Australia at least would be my speculation as we could never have assembled a Carrier Fleet in time to meet Japs head on (in time-before 1943)and our logistics chain would have been unbelievable until we could re-take Hawaii.
Good bye Australia at least would be my speculation as we could never have assembled a Carrier Fleet in time to meet Japs head on (in time-before 1943)and our logistics chain would have been unbelievable until we could re-take Hawaii.
helmitsmit
Airman 1st Class
Back to the P40 why did it have the ugly air intake like the Typhoon? why not more streamlined?
kool kitty89
Senior Master Sergeant
That's the radiator, not the intake. The intake is the little hole/scoop over the nose. And the chin radiator of the P-40B/C was pretty streamlined (kind of like the P-38J/L) but the later P-40s aparently needed more cooling for uprated engines, and if you notice those ones were quite a bit faster despite the lower streamlining (similar to the early to late P-38 comparison) but as the original radiator was similar in size to the P-38J/L's I'm not sure why a larger one was needeed...
And on the Typhoon, aren't you glad they came up with the radial Tempest Mk II and the Sea Fury; can you immagine if they'd stuck with the merlin in the production Sea Fury. As it was the other Tempest marks were still a bit ugly, But the Mk II had similar good looks to the P-47N (which used the tempest's canopy incedentaly), albeit with a slimmer fusalage.
The Tempest Mk II would have to be among the best looking WWII planes while the other marks are pretty ugly; worse than the late P-40s and the Bf-109 too since they were ugly enough to be menacing. (granted the 109 more than the P-40)
Likewise Brewster's F2A looked "pugnacious" from the nose. It was a nice looking plane too, better in looks then the F4F-3+ imho.
And on the Typhoon, aren't you glad they came up with the radial Tempest Mk II and the Sea Fury; can you immagine if they'd stuck with the merlin in the production Sea Fury. As it was the other Tempest marks were still a bit ugly, But the Mk II had similar good looks to the P-47N (which used the tempest's canopy incedentaly), albeit with a slimmer fusalage.
The Tempest Mk II would have to be among the best looking WWII planes while the other marks are pretty ugly; worse than the late P-40s and the Bf-109 too since they were ugly enough to be menacing. (granted the 109 more than the P-40)
Likewise Brewster's F2A looked "pugnacious" from the nose. It was a nice looking plane too, better in looks then the F4F-3+ imho.
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Desert Fox
Senior Airman
I personally found the chin radiator on the Typhoon quite good looking. I'm not sure why, it was just an aspect of the aeroplane that I particularly liked.
kool kitty89
Senior Master Sergeant
I like the Tempest Mk II looks better overall, though I think the chin intake looked better on the Typhoon then it did on the Tempest...
The P-39 and P-63 were nice and the P-59 looked nice from the right angle.
The P-39 and P-63 were nice and the P-59 looked nice from the right angle.
Elvis
Chief Master Sergeant
I too don't mind the large "chin" on the P-40...anyway, if it wasn't there, the shark would be flying around its mouth closed and that's no good!
...I don't like it on the Typhoon, though.
Looks more tacked-on. The P-40's was much more integrated IMHO.
...but, and forgive me if I'm incorrect, isn't that "chin" on the P-40 the covering for the oil cooler?
If not, where's the oil cooler intake on the P-40?
Elvis
kool kitty89
Senior Master Sergeant
IIRC the oil cooler in all P-40's is in the nose. Though originally on the prototype, ONLY the oil cooler was in the nose, while the radiator was ventrally mounted. This was later moved to the chin position and the oil cooler was mounted between the 2 glycol cooler radiators. (hence the 3 divided sections clearly visible in the 3-view illustrations. See: Curtiss XP-40 (FYI you can look up almost any US fighter on this site,P-1 to P-92 as well as the F-fighters, by altering the URL, though there doesn't seem to be any index or homepage and the F2A is the only navy and only fighters/prsuit a/c are covered)
Personally I think the P-40B/C nose makes a better shark's mouth as it still has the open mouth (albeit not as wide as the D an later models) and has a curvier, pointier, sharke-like nose.
I'm still not sure if the P-40 necessary the larger radiator mounting since the P-38J's was no bigger than the P-40B's an it worked fine. (certainly much better than the small radiator intake of the early P-38s which certainly were inadequate)
Personally I think the P-40B/C nose makes a better shark's mouth as it still has the open mouth (albeit not as wide as the D an later models) and has a curvier, pointier, sharke-like nose.
I'm still not sure if the P-40 necessary the larger radiator mounting since the P-38J's was no bigger than the P-40B's an it worked fine. (certainly much better than the small radiator intake of the early P-38s which certainly were inadequate)
helmitsmit
Airman 1st Class
Even the Tempest 5 look good! Those wings are gorgeous! I agree that the intake damaged the lines a little! Actually I don't care what engine they use sabre or merlin as long as they lose the chin radiator. The sabre v1 fury that did 485mph was very beautiful
helmitsmit
Airman 1st Class
I have to say it is weird that more fighters didn't empoy spitfire or mustang style intakes. The mosquito had a good intake system.
kool kitty89
Senior Master Sergeant
As said the P-40 tried a ventral radiator, but it resulted in poor aerodynamics. The belly scoop may have worked for the Hurricane and Mustang, and the wing radiators for the Spit, but that doesn't mean they can be substituted on other a/c.
The wing-root radiators on the P-39 and P-63 are very sleek as well.
I prefer the Centaurus powered Tempest II and Sea Fury the the Saber powered Tempests, they just look right with radials. And the wings are nice, like the P-47N's.
On the Whirlwind, there are plenty of pictures on the web, just google it. Though there are no Whirlwinds left. IIRC the few remaining when they were retired in '43 were eventually scrapped. =(
The wing-root radiators on the P-39 and P-63 are very sleek as well.
I prefer the Centaurus powered Tempest II and Sea Fury the the Saber powered Tempests, they just look right with radials. And the wings are nice, like the P-47N's.
On the Whirlwind, there are plenty of pictures on the web, just google it. Though there are no Whirlwinds left. IIRC the few remaining when they were retired in '43 were eventually scrapped. =(
Just took another look at Tempest II, you are right she was a beaut, but I have a thing for the twin engine craft. I even like the looks of the humble bf 110.
The only whirlwind photos I see are cheezy (Wikipedia-esque), I never seem to find shots as cool as the ones I see posted here. I guess its time for me to step up earn my stripes, eh?
The only whirlwind photos I see are cheezy (Wikipedia-esque), I never seem to find shots as cool as the ones I see posted here. I guess its time for me to step up earn my stripes, eh?
helmitsmit
Airman 1st Class
helmitsmit
Airman 1st Class
best i can find sorry
kool kitty89
Senior Master Sergeant
If you love twin-engine fighters then you must love the looks P-38 and Fw-187 too then. Granted the Mossie, Hornet, and Whirlwind are some of the best looking too. The 187 was an excelent fighter too, fast, maneuverable, outclimbing and diving the Bf-109 and with twice the range! Even when it was forced to switch to lower powered engines it still beat the 110. It would have been very bad for the Brits had she been chosen over the 110 as an escort fighter. Though the requirement of the 2nd crewman was unnecessary and pointless unless a radar was fitted for nightfighting. The 187 was the onlt twin fighter in Germany that could have rivaled the P-38 as a long range heavy fighter.
Also do you like the twin jets, or just the props? Since the He 280 is also quite a nice plane. Though Jumo 004s just looked wrong, 003s were OK but the original nacelles fore the HeS-8 looked best.
Also do you like the twin jets, or just the props? Since the He 280 is also quite a nice plane. Though Jumo 004s just looked wrong, 003s were OK but the original nacelles fore the HeS-8 looked best.
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Desert Fox
Senior Airman
At the moment I'm reading a book entitled "Wings On My Sleeves", written by Eric Brown, who was a test pilot during WWII and in the post war years. One of the photos in the book is of the Westland Wyvern. This is the first time I have heard of this aircraft, and I find it to be very good looking. It's most unique/unusual feature is the contra-rotating propellors.
My thanks to Wikipedia for the following data:
General characteristics
Crew: One
Length: 42 ft 3 in (12.88 m)
Wingspan: 44 ft 0 in (13.42 m)
Height: 15 ft 0 in (4.57 m)
Wing area: 355 ft² (33 m²)
Empty weight: 15,608 lb (7,095 kg)
Loaded weight: 21,200 lb (9,636 kg)
Max takeoff weight: 24,450 lb (11,113 kg)
Powerplant: 1× Armstrong Siddeley Python 3 turboprop, 3,667 hp (2,736 kW)
Performance
Maximum speed: 383 mph (613 km/h)
Range: 904 miles (1,446 km)
Service ceiling: 28,000 ft (8,537 m)
Rate of climb: 2,350 ft/min (11.9 m/s)
Wing loading: 60 lb/ft² (292 kg/m²)
Power/mass: 0.17 hp/lb (0.28 kW/kg)
Armament
4x 20 mm Hispano Mk. V cannons in the wings
16x underwing rockets or
Up to 3,000 lb (1,364 kg) of bombs or
1x Mk-15/17 torpedo or sea mine
If you look closely in this picture, you will notice the contra-rotating props. Sorry that I couldn't find a better picture, but they are few and far between on the internet.
My thanks to Wikipedia for the following data:
General characteristics
Crew: One
Length: 42 ft 3 in (12.88 m)
Wingspan: 44 ft 0 in (13.42 m)
Height: 15 ft 0 in (4.57 m)
Wing area: 355 ft² (33 m²)
Empty weight: 15,608 lb (7,095 kg)
Loaded weight: 21,200 lb (9,636 kg)
Max takeoff weight: 24,450 lb (11,113 kg)
Powerplant: 1× Armstrong Siddeley Python 3 turboprop, 3,667 hp (2,736 kW)
Performance
Maximum speed: 383 mph (613 km/h)
Range: 904 miles (1,446 km)
Service ceiling: 28,000 ft (8,537 m)
Rate of climb: 2,350 ft/min (11.9 m/s)
Wing loading: 60 lb/ft² (292 kg/m²)
Power/mass: 0.17 hp/lb (0.28 kW/kg)
Armament
4x 20 mm Hispano Mk. V cannons in the wings
16x underwing rockets or
Up to 3,000 lb (1,364 kg) of bombs or
1x Mk-15/17 torpedo or sea mine
If you look closely in this picture, you will notice the contra-rotating props. Sorry that I couldn't find a better picture, but they are few and far between on the internet.
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Desert Fox
Senior Airman
After a little bit more searching, I found the following picture, which illustrates the unique design much better.
Picture taken from F-16.net :: The Ultimate F-16 Reference
Picture taken from F-16.net :: The Ultimate F-16 Reference
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Kool Kitty, gotta admit the 187 was gorgeous
Was looking at other photos on link below (if I were smart enough to directly attach photos I would):
Focke-Wulf 187 archive file
Lord only knows what the Luftwaft was thinking when they passed (repeatedly) on this beauty. What a perfect craft for the Luftwaft to have had during the BoB = range, speed, manueverabilty, and even limited/very favorable battle testing. Wonder what she was missing? Powerful patrons like Messerschmitt had I supppose.
As far as the Mossie/P-38 go, I luv 'em, my nature I suppose draws me to the more obscure birds - which likely has kept me coming back to this forum.
Was looking at other photos on link below (if I were smart enough to directly attach photos I would):
Focke-Wulf 187 archive file
Lord only knows what the Luftwaft was thinking when they passed (repeatedly) on this beauty. What a perfect craft for the Luftwaft to have had during the BoB = range, speed, manueverabilty, and even limited/very favorable battle testing. Wonder what she was missing? Powerful patrons like Messerschmitt had I supppose.
As far as the Mossie/P-38 go, I luv 'em, my nature I suppose draws me to the more obscure birds - which likely has kept me coming back to this forum.
kool kitty89
Senior Master Sergeant
The only disadvantage was that the Fw 187's cockpit was small (albeit less so than the 109) and the RLM requiring a 2-seater in all configurations didn't help either. Limiting the use of the DB 600 series engines was hypocritical too as they were allowed to be used on the Bf 110. Imagine if the He 100 and Fw 187 had seen service...
How about jets though? The He 280 was fairly obscure and quite nice looking. Probably even better with HeS-30 engines, though not as good an interceptor as the Me-263 she was probably the best dogfighter of the war. Maybe 2x MK 103 cannons could have been fitted, that would have made a good combo, though recoil effects would be high, still acceptable. As mentioned 004s were wrong in almost every way for the 280. Too much fuel consumption, size and weight. The elliptical wing (similar to the P-47's) was also beautiful.
Maybe she should have used HeS 6 engines instead (mid-wing mounted like the Meteor to keep ground clearance) that way she could have flown under power right away in 1940 (as the HeS 6 was running in late '39) The HeS 6 was producing around 1300 lbf of thrust at a decent fuel consumption (~1.3 [lb/lbf hr] iirc), thrust that the HeS 8 wasnt producing until 1942.
How about jets though? The He 280 was fairly obscure and quite nice looking. Probably even better with HeS-30 engines, though not as good an interceptor as the Me-263 she was probably the best dogfighter of the war. Maybe 2x MK 103 cannons could have been fitted, that would have made a good combo, though recoil effects would be high, still acceptable. As mentioned 004s were wrong in almost every way for the 280. Too much fuel consumption, size and weight. The elliptical wing (similar to the P-47's) was also beautiful.
Maybe she should have used HeS 6 engines instead (mid-wing mounted like the Meteor to keep ground clearance) that way she could have flown under power right away in 1940 (as the HeS 6 was running in late '39) The HeS 6 was producing around 1300 lbf of thrust at a decent fuel consumption (~1.3 [lb/lbf hr] iirc), thrust that the HeS 8 wasnt producing until 1942.
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