Most effective planes of the early war years

delcyros · Jun 7, 2005

The 110 is really not that bad. It succesfully participated in the escort, fighter, interceptor (Battle over the German Bay), recon and ground attack role on it´s own. It wasn´t until the BoB that it´s shortcomings have been known. Until Dunkirk it was the best versatile plane and therefore highly effective. Keep in mind that more planes fell to the guns of the Bf-110 than Bf-109 over Poland, Norway and the Benelux. Over France the Bf-109 and Bf-110 were about equal and at BoB most kills are credited to the Bf-109.
The G4M probably was extremely effective in the early years, it is credited with the sinking of two british battleships (Repulse and Prince of Wales, along with torpedobombers) and technically it was a good bomber. The Swordfish really was a star in the early years. Beside of Tarent, it safed the day for the Royal Navy by fortunately hitting the rudderroom of the Bismarck, rendering it´s maneuverability to zero. While the other two hits did not reduced the combat abilities of the ship, this lucky hit allowed the hunters to engage the Bismarck and seal it´s fate.

plan_D · Jun 7, 2005

I hate people with that attitude. It wasn't a lucky hit! The aircraft aimed at the Bismarck and hit the Bismarck. And don't start with "Torpedos couldn't sink the Bismarck though" because they could! The Bismarck was finally sunk by a torpedo from H.M.S Dorsetshire!

Lucky, fuck off.

the lancaster kicks ass · Jun 7, 2005

yes they were british, as such, it was skill involved, not luck.......

delcyros · Jun 7, 2005

For this task I strongly suggest to reread the excamination reports of the Bismarck. No torpedo of a Swordfish carryable size could sink the Bismarck alone. None of the torpedo bulkheads of the Bismarck are destroyed, just one spot, hit by 14 inch grenade, probably by Prince of Wales, pierced the torpedo bulkhead. The Dorsetshire hits damaged the outer surface of the hull, not the watetight sectors behind the torpedo bulkheads.
And yes, it was a lucky hit, lucky in a sense that the rudder controll of any warship are sensitive to be jammed if directly hit (either, by a torpedo or pierced by AP-grenades).
It is thinkable that repeated torpedohits (no less than 12) have under some circumstances (hit in the same sector, one torpedo gets through the whole and explodes inside the hull, just as in case of the Yamato or Scharnhorst) a chance to sink the ship, but not the few the Bismarck got.
I also suggest to read Nathan Okuns article about the protection system of the Bismarck. 8)

Nonskimmer · Jun 7, 2005

Well call it luck that it was a hit to the rudder then, preventing Bismarck from running any further.

Better?

FLYBOYJ · Jun 7, 2005

Yea, that's BS - I aimed at the bow and hit the rudder?!? Lucky, no way!

Nonskimmer · Jun 7, 2005

So much for my feeble attempt at wit.

the lancaster kicks ass · Jun 7, 2005

dude, we sunk the bismark no matter what, no ammount of you saying it was luck will change the fact that we did, i don't know what you're trying to prove with this argument........

plan_D · Jun 7, 2005

Exactly. It wasn't luck at all. The Swordfish crews didn't just aim at the ship, they aimed at areas of the ship. Luck would be a Swordfish getting shot down then crashing aimlessly into the rudder and jamming it.

It wasn't luck, it was skill and bravery of those Swordfish crews!

delcyros · Jun 7, 2005

Anyway, this doesn´t reduce the Swordfishs efforts in this task. While flying a n obsolete biplane and attacking the most fearsome ship of it´s time! That´s what I call effectiffness....

plan_D · Jun 7, 2005

That's more like it.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Jun 9, 2005

Well for the ontopic part of my post I will go with the Bf-109E as the best early war aircraft. She had decent armament and good performance. The Stuka also was very successfull at early war time.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Jun 9, 2005

the lancaster kicks ass said:
dude, we sunk the bismark no matter what, no ammount of you saying it was luck will change the fact that we did, i don't know what you're trying to prove with this argument........

Now for the off topic portion.

For all intensive purposes I too believe the Brits sank the Bismark, however I have a film by Robert Ballard (who found the Bismark). Well he went back to the Bismark several years ago and found evidence that the Bismark was scuttled by her crew so as not to let the British sink her. She was dead in the water and the British were going to get sink her but they blew her up from internally. This is all from his mouth as well so, take it as you please.

marseille jr · Jun 9, 2005

Well for the ontopic part of my post I will go with the Bf-109E as the best early war aircraft. She had decent armament and good performance

Let's not forget the dewoitine D 520. If I'm not mistaken , it racked up a favourable kill ratio against the germans, and that with pilots who often had flown less than about 10 hours in that type of aircraft. It was slower but more manoevrable than the Emil and packed 4 0.30 calibers and a moteur cannon (firing through propeller hub) ...considerable in those days.

I read this on a site : Even though it was lower in terms of pure speed to the Messerschmitt Bf 109E, the Dewoitine D-520 outclassed it in terms of maneuverability. For this reason, the Dewoitine was considered one of the best aircraft at the beginning of the war and it could have had a similar career, or a superior career, to the legendary aircraft that is now the Spitfire, the Focke Wulf Fw 190 or the Messerschmitt Bf 109. The D-520 was created in 1936 by the French designer Emile Dewoitine.

Glider · Jun 9, 2005

I am with Marseille. My choices for what there worth are as follows
Single engined fighter would be the De520,
Twin engined fighter the Fokker G1
Light bomber has to be the Stuka
Medium bomber the Wellington
Torpedo bomber Swordfish

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Jun 10, 2005

marseille jr said:
Well for the ontopic part of my post I will go with the Bf-109E as the best early war aircraft. She had decent armament and good performance

Click to expand...

Let's not forget the dewoitine D 520. If I'm not mistaken , it racked up a favourable kill ratio against the germans, and that with pilots who often had flown less than about 10 hours in that type of aircraft. It was slower but more manoevrable than the Emil and packed 4 0.30 calibers and a moteur cannon (firing through propeller hub) ...considerable in those days.

I read this on a site : Even though it was lower in terms of pure speed to the Messerschmitt Bf 109E, the Dewoitine D-520 outclassed it in terms of maneuverability. For this reason, the Dewoitine was considered one of the best aircraft at the beginning of the war and it could have had a similar career, or a superior career, to the legendary aircraft that is now the Spitfire, the Focke Wulf Fw 190 or the Messerschmitt Bf 109. The D-520 was created in 1936 by the French designer Emile Dewoitine.

Big thing though: "Could Have Been". Cant speak to well for the French for the whole war.

FLYBOYJ · Jun 10, 2005

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
Big thing though: "Could Have Been". Cant speak to well for the French for the whole war.

YEPPERS!

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Jun 10, 2005

I really like the google search there. Was that an actual search or did you make it.

FLYBOYJ · Jun 10, 2005

Found it on the net, won't be too surprised though if it came out that way!

cheddar cheese · Jun 10, 2005

marseille jr said:
Well for the ontopic part of my post I will go with the Bf-109E as the best early war aircraft. She had decent armament and good performance

Click to expand...

Let's not forget the dewoitine D 520. If I'm not mistaken , it racked up a favourable kill ratio against the germans, and that with pilots who often had flown less than about 10 hours in that type of aircraft. It was slower but more manoevrable than the Emil and packed 4 0.30 calibers and a moteur cannon (firing through propeller hub) ...considerable in those days.

I read this on a site : Even though it was lower in terms of pure speed to the Messerschmitt Bf 109E, the Dewoitine D-520 outclassed it in terms of maneuverability. For this reason, the Dewoitine was considered one of the best aircraft at the beginning of the war and it could have had a similar career, or a superior career, to the legendary aircraft that is now the Spitfire, the Focke Wulf Fw 190 or the Messerschmitt Bf 109. The D-520 was created in 1936 by the French designer Emile Dewoitine.

I agree. The D.520 is hugely underrated.

Most effective planes of the early war years

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