I'll see your assorted British aircraft and raise you the Vickers Wellesley which saw active service in The East African Campaign (against the Italians)
Most ignored combat aircraft of ww2
- Thread starter michael rauls
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Reminds me another great and well known in USSR/post USSR test pilot Mark Gallay. 124 aircraft, participator of early space program. Over a dozen of books.
He was shortly in combat in 1941 and claimed Do-215 in one of night interceptions.
Reading his books (well written, by the way) I was quite often surprised by his evaluations of combat machines. His opinion about P-47 was summarised as "Good airplane but not a fighter".
Skyediamonds
Staff Sergeant
- 1,268
- May 26, 2018
Ivan and Biff:
Excellent!! Truly exciting to know our fellow members have not only read the book but are intimately familiar with some of the passages written about Boyd and his Energy-Maneuverability Theory. I was going to quote all that stuff, but I thought it might be a bit overwhelming for starters and supposedly a response to the test pilot versus combat pilot. Wow!! Is this site great or what?
The USMAC were the only branch to honor Boyd's funeral.
Insofar as the Pentagon, Boyd was a civilian working almost 20/7 at the expense of his wife and family. Because he was a civilian, he could (and often did) hang up on generals and anyone else whom he felt wasn't worth his time. As a civilian he was not beholden to military protocols and often regarded them as "nuisance." Boyd was especially known for his "Briefings" which stretched out 6-8- hours and sometimes more than one day. When told to compress his Briefs down to 2 hours or less, he would yell on the phone: "Well, how about NO brief?" and hang up. I especially enjoyed the passages where Boyd would seek out any unfortunate general or colonel walking down the hallways within the Pentagon, corner them and constantly poke into their chest and, while yelling at them about how stupid their ideas were, spittle leftover foods into their faces, while at the same time his cigar would drop ashes all over their shoes. I would've paid admission just to see that.
I must have read and reread that book at least three or four times. Enjoyed every minute of it.
Responding to Boyd being intimate with the F-100, I totally agree with Ivan that his ideas and approach to rough handling the Sabre was not for the faint of heart and possibly dangerous to the uninitiated. However, I also feel that a pilot should absolutely know his limits and the limits of his plane if he's to survive in a combat scenario that lasts only seconds, with split seconds being the difference between survival and death. Boyd was a great advocate of utilizing that Hun to its limits.
With the advent of drones now being a major factor into the battle scene, I wonder what Boyd's thoughts would be.
Excellent!! Truly exciting to know our fellow members have not only read the book but are intimately familiar with some of the passages written about Boyd and his Energy-Maneuverability Theory. I was going to quote all that stuff, but I thought it might be a bit overwhelming for starters and supposedly a response to the test pilot versus combat pilot. Wow!! Is this site great or what?
The USMAC were the only branch to honor Boyd's funeral.
Insofar as the Pentagon, Boyd was a civilian working almost 20/7 at the expense of his wife and family. Because he was a civilian, he could (and often did) hang up on generals and anyone else whom he felt wasn't worth his time. As a civilian he was not beholden to military protocols and often regarded them as "nuisance." Boyd was especially known for his "Briefings" which stretched out 6-8- hours and sometimes more than one day. When told to compress his Briefs down to 2 hours or less, he would yell on the phone: "Well, how about NO brief?" and hang up. I especially enjoyed the passages where Boyd would seek out any unfortunate general or colonel walking down the hallways within the Pentagon, corner them and constantly poke into their chest and, while yelling at them about how stupid their ideas were, spittle leftover foods into their faces, while at the same time his cigar would drop ashes all over their shoes. I would've paid admission just to see that.
I must have read and reread that book at least three or four times. Enjoyed every minute of it.
Responding to Boyd being intimate with the F-100, I totally agree with Ivan that his ideas and approach to rough handling the Sabre was not for the faint of heart and possibly dangerous to the uninitiated. However, I also feel that a pilot should absolutely know his limits and the limits of his plane if he's to survive in a combat scenario that lasts only seconds, with split seconds being the difference between survival and death. Boyd was a great advocate of utilizing that Hun to its limits.
With the advent of drones now being a major factor into the battle scene, I wonder what Boyd's thoughts would be.
Skyediamonds,
I think he would approve depending on how they are used. If in the right place at the right time they can be very useful.
Cheers,
Biff
Ah, the Wellesley; I had a Matchbox model of that aeroplane. How about the Vickers Vildebeest (he says, digging deeper to find ever more obscure British aeroplanes used briefly during the war...)!
Vickers Vildebeest - Wikipedia
The Royal New Zealand Air Force at the outbreak of WW2 in 1939 had no modern combat aircraft. It was populated by Hawker Hinds and Vildebeests and Vincents, with Blackburn Baffins also, although an order of Vickers Wellingtons was undergoing completion in the UK. These were never delivered to New Zealand and remained to equip 75 Squadron, which became the first Commonwealth squadron with the addition of two letters (NZ).
Imperial Airways Short 'C' Class flying boats were used for long range maritime patrol after German surface raiders sank shipping in the South Pacific.
Skyediamonds
Staff Sergeant
- 1,268
- May 26, 2018
Nuuu:
I agree, Vickers Vildebeest gets my vote too. I've seen a photo of an R/C sized model published in a British modeling publication of that biplane. The modeler did an outstanding job on super detailing the model to very high standards.
I'd like to know where/how he managed to obtain such detailed documentation to be able to build such a model.
Skye
I agree, Vickers Vildebeest gets my vote too. I've seen a photo of an R/C sized model published in a British modeling publication of that biplane. The modeler did an outstanding job on super detailing the model to very high standards.
I'd like to know where/how he managed to obtain such detailed documentation to be able to build such a model.
Skye
The japanese army light support bomber Ki-51 (2,300 made) is virtually unmentioned in western books on WW2, a kind of unique liason & light attack plane developed from war experience in China, but very conventional design.
Its probably negelcted due to it looking like the better known navy's D3A Val dive bomber.
Its probably negelcted due to it looking like the better known navy's D3A Val dive bomber.
- Thread starter
- #109
michael rauls
Tech Sergeant
- 1,679
- Jul 15, 2016
That's a very good pick. I've never read a word about it in any book and with over 2000 made it's not like it was some experimental type that never really got going.
swampyankee
Chief Master Sergeant
- 4,031
- Jun 25, 2013
Just about every maritime aircraft except the Catalina and Sunderland, for the Allies.
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Skyediamonds
Staff Sergeant
- 1,268
- May 26, 2018
Interesting. This list keep growing! I have to agree with "M." I've never heard of that Japanese aircraft either, and with over 2,000 made, I have to wonder how they were passed over in most books on WW2 aircraft or even those that specialized in Japanese aircraft.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
The Sonia (KI-51) gets it's share of press, but not being a fighter, tends to get overlooked unless a person is specifically looking at the CBI theater, where the bulk of it's operations happened.
What's nearly absent from the books, however, is the KI-102 - a latewar twin engined heavy fighter.
What's nearly absent from the books, however, is the KI-102 - a latewar twin engined heavy fighter.
Conslaw
Senior Airman
I agree. Martin built 1575 Baltimores, and the vast majority of them saw combat service. Like some other planes (such as the Hawker Typhoon), this plane is easy to forget about because none currently survive.
Shortround6
Major General
they fall into a grey zone. Built in America but not flown by Americans the US had little interest in them. Flown by the Commonwealth but not built by them there was little reason to publicize them.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Anything by Fokker barely gets a mention, even though they were used by the Dutch, British and Finland.
- Thread starter
- #118
michael rauls
Tech Sergeant
- 1,679
- Jul 15, 2016
That's another great pick. I've never read a word about it.( Heading for Wikipedia now)
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Some Fokker types to look up, would be the T.VIII, G.I, D.XXI and the C.X
- Thread starter
- #120
michael rauls
Tech Sergeant
- 1,679
- Jul 15, 2016
Cool thanks. I love learning about new stuff of which I was previously un-aware. I was just reading about that ki-102 and it sounds like it would have been a formidable weapon with that guided air to surface misile they had plans to couple it with. Fortunately they chose to hold it in reserve for what they thought would be the comming invasion of the home islands
