My Cousin

[Skyraider3D]

Wow quite a story Erich! Thanks for sharing.

Do you know what your cousin's A-9 looked like? If interested, I might be able to do artwork of it, as I intend to create a 3D model of the Fw 190 A-8/9 soon.

 

[Erich]

Greets Sky and welcome to our little board of rascals !

yes I have a profile or two done up by a German archaeoligist/historian some years back, will have to find and scan it in soon. Geez this thread is nearly a year old since the last posting..............hey Adler when you get back this spring go back to those fields again outside of Holtensen and take pics besides a present pic of my cousins grave cross............ 8)

I've got a blurb from a 355th fg pilot that flew this mission, and his flight may have broken up JG 301 near Misburg. I've picked up some extra energies since a year ago about this mission and the events surrounding the problems that JG 301 made. will post this later

E ~

 

[Skyraider3D]

You were right Erich, this post indeed moved into the Archive section and that's why I couldn't access it anymore

Have you managed to scan the profile and find the additional info in the meantime?

 

[Erich]

Sky I made a copy of it some years ago but trying to find the scan and after more reserch feel it is wrong the second gruppe bar would of been red and not white as I first thought

E

 

[Erich]

more will be coming soon within a months time, am going to be in contact with a German archaeology team

E ~

 

[Skyraider3D]

I'm looking forward to your findings, Erich!

 

[drgondog]

Erich - I noted many references (by German witnesses to the event) to "overwhelming numbers" of US Fighter Escorts in the narratives. In the specific area of the 445th, the bomber crews reported 4 waves of 30-40 ships and the 355th encounter reports mention several gaggles of 75+ 109's and 190's.

I would have to do the research but I think the 355th had about 30 effectives in the Hanover-Gardlingen axis to meet the German attack plus only 2 flights of 2SF. Have to do the research on actual numbers but at that place and that time the Luftwaffe had a large advantage over the escorts in terms of numbers - and the 355th/2SF was the primary hammer to blunt the JG301 fighters. The ratio of US fighter to Luftwaffe at the point of attack was between 1:3 and 1:6 depending on how you count the Luftwaffe strength around the 445th BG B-24's

I suppose the outcome was determined by overwhelming advantage in training and experience - but not numbers of a/c.

warm regards,

Bill

 

[Erich]

actually Bill it was all along the route in and away from Misburg and not necessairly the area of the JG 301/ 355th 2nd SF, the 339th was in the area.

IV./JG 54 and JG 1 got really snubbed. AIntersting according to JG 301 records the Fw 190A-9's were literally shot of the skies many falling to the SW of Misburg in the mtns...........more like hills and their lifeless bodies brought back to the Wünstorf Freiburg lies, at leat 15 pilots buried here from what I understand. It was a nasty nose-bleed for the Luftwaffe and especially fo JG 301 three gruppen many pilots unskilled in attack and defence. Jg 301 pilopts were ordered to attack and not give in, a possible reason for the ease ? of shooting down so many Fw's from the rear while they were in tight tactical and then attacking formation on the bombers..........

cheers

Erich

 

[lesofprimus]

That was a really bad day for JG 301, many student pilots on their first mission went down that day...

 

[drgondog]

Good point Erich - I also just remembered the the 355/2SF overlapped both the 454 and 491 BG...

I feel the same way you do, that the Goering directive to only attack bombers cost the Luftwaffe a lot of pilots - and at the end of the day enabled the earlier USAAF Fighter Groups to 1.) gain experience w/o suffering really heavy losses and 2.) reinforced American Fighter pilot's instincts to be aggressive from the earliest stage of introduction in the skies over Europe - which really paid dividends when 8AF encouraged the Fighter Command to go after the Luftwaffe and destroy it vs staying tethered to the bomb groups.


Regards,
Bill

 

[lesofprimus]

From Willi Reschkes' book concerning 26Nov1944:

1,137 B-24's and B-17's, along with 732 P-47's and P-51's took off from England...

JG 301 claims: 16 B-24's, 5 B-17's and 1 P-51...
American losses were: 42 bombers and 11 escorts....

It is assumed that the descrepancy is due to the fact that many JG 301 pilots who scored kills were killed as well..

JG 301 lost a total of 40 pilots killed or wounded, roughly a third of those who took off that day... On 21Nov1944, they lost an additional 12 pilots, while the Americans admitted to a loss of 44 bombers and 15 escorts... 7. Staffel alone lost 7 pilots on the 26th, while 12. Staffel lost none...

Oberfeldwebel Hans Muller of 2. Staffel shot down 3 B-24's on the 26th, a feat seldom equaled in the history of the Reichsverteidigung...

Over those last 2 missions, JG 301 lost HALF of its combat strength....

 

[Jaws]

Amazing read Sir.
Thank you very much. Only God knows how those poor guys went up there to fight in those helpless and desperate conditions, with no end in sight.



Thanks again. Great read

 

[Erich]

thanks Jaws, and it will continue ............ thanks to help from historians like drgondog whose father flew as a pilot in the US 8th AF 355th fighter group. As Les reports 16 B-24 claims but this is only from the US 491st bomb group confirmed ! the 445th bg also was attacked by JG 301 and lost a further 5 B-24's confirmed to Fw 190's of the Gschwader, so it should read 21 B-24's to JG 301 plus the Fw's attacked further to the west B-17 bomb groups leaving the target area and accounted for some Fortresses in the melee', or I should say the madness and that is what it was exactly. JG 301 first reported over 58 kills but upon further investigation it was decreased as Les points out.

Schwarze tag für JG 301 it was !!

E ~

 

[Erich]

65 years ago tomorrow.................... my cousins first air operation in 5./JG 301 an air engagement that went wrong almost from the start with the Jagdgeschwader the Kommandeur/leader of the attack misinterpreted altitude and course changes and carried the 3 gruppen of Jg 301 to the front to make a non practiced frontal attack on the 398th bomb group.

in memorium of those that fell ...........

for those that never had read part of this deadly air combats in November of 44

E ~

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

 

[rochie]

my salute to your cousin and all that fell on all sides

 

[lesofprimus]

Same here... Hats off to all the young me just out of their teens who gave their all......

 

[FLYBOYJ]

 

[Erich]

was reading the lead up to the November 44 battles via Reschke's memory. from September through October the JG 301 unit was still not ready for it's initiation, just too many inexperienced crewmen.

what a mess for this LW unit, though through all of November 44 the LW was still a vicious viable day time force to be reckoned with. Some US pilots became aces in a day...............tragedies on both sides.

 

[syscom3]

Thanks for the write up!!!!

A salute to all involved and RIP to those who fell that fateful day.